Pacino's kennel

[solowolf]

hi, now that the price war seems to be drying up !! you may be interested to know that after 5yrs & 7 mths work & effort by my wife mandy, myself & corrie keizer after tons of paperwork, hundreds of phone calls, endless red tape, & pleading with kennel club, lynx legends puppies are all now on the working & obedience register with the kennel club of great britian, the first step to get the breed reconised in uk, we need 10 czechs in uk to get on import register, then we will put the breed up to become fully reconised in uk, we have dogs that will be imported this year to make up the numbers, it has been long hard dtruggle but worth every day, corrie has give us support from day one, without her help there would be no czechs in uk, also many thanks to robb in hollan who bred lynx, so i think it is fair to say we have made a big effort for the breed, corrie & i promoted the first czech ever at crufts, we produced the first litter in uk, the strang thing is for all our effort & work, it did not even get a mention on wolfdog.org from all the czech owners & breeders on wolfdog.org we have only recieved two private email to congratulate us on our effort, a few words of support would have been nice now & then but not to worry, hopefully next year we will be the complete attension at discover dogs at crufts standing proude with our czechoslovakian wolfdogs. best regards paul,mandy & corrie.............

[Conor]

You have all put in a lot of time and effort. The result is a very promising looking situation for us here now in the UK. We owe you a great deal, and your professionalism is apparent in the standard of the dogs and the service you have given us. I think it is what taking serious ownership of a very special breed of dog is all about, and we have plenty to look forward to, and to work towards in the future. I am very pleased that Hektor and I are on board, and we are looking forward to getting involved and showing a return of the comittment that you have shown to us.

This is an opportunity for us to make a great name for the CzW in the UK, and I am certain that with you pushing things forward, that is what will happen. In the coming months the UK owners, prospective owners and fans of the CzW and Sarloos will have their own points of contact, information exchange, and mutual support based here within the UK. I am sure that we can also rely on our friends in Europe and elsewhere to support us and help us by letting us have access to their considerable experience, but at the same time I hope that before long the UK owners will be adding valuable information to the knowlegde base themselves.

Thanks to you, your wife, Corrie and others, we now have a toe hold in the UK, and I am looking forward to helping you consolidate that position, and to get the recognition for these dogs that they deserve.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hello Paul,

looking at the litter-advertisement of the kennel Shoshone I have two questions: What do the HD-Results mean? I never heard of a result like 4:5 and I don´t think it makes any sense to show it this kind on wolfdog.org.
And are you sure the Louba Tar ancestors are no mixes? Did you do any tests?

Regards Ina

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hello Paul,

looking at the litter-advertisement of the kennel Shoshone I have two questions: What do the HD-Results mean? I never heard of a result like 4:5 and I don´t think it makes any sense to show it this kind on wolfdog.org.
And are you sure the Louba Tar ancestors are no mixes? Did you do any tests?

Regards Ina

hi Ina, the De louba tar comment made me and others laugh, joke with a jag, best check your dogs as well you never know where de louba tar pops up or that is, if it is de louba tar,,, i dont think you will be the one who decides on weather the hip scoring results from uk are o.k on wolfdog.org at least we send them in,,, anyone who has interest on how our hip scoring works can mail me private, we assure all on wolfdog.org we only breed from very low scores, unfortunately hip scoring does not detect dogs that carry the displasia gene, nore does it detect such factors as diet and over excercise in young dogs, all can lead to hip problems,, have a nice day,,,paul

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Dear Paul,

I am very sure none of my dogs contains this blood and never will. And you yourself started a topic containing this problem so don´t blame me to take you serious.

That hip results don´t show the genes is nothing new but they give you the possibility to find out if there is a inherited problem if you look at them over generations.
What I really meant is that no one in Europe has the possibility to know anything about the hip results of your dogs because on the continent you use the A,B,C,D,E system. It would be of much greater use to translate the English results in this system on wolfdog.org what should be possible.

A little bit astonished
Ina

[nanouk]

Originally Posted by pacino

, all our dogs are registered on wolfdog.org all are chipped and can be identified, all breedings in Europe are logged and photos taken of each mating, so you can be assured that no cross breeding takes place, we have asked kennel club of uk, and as long as we keep records if they get recognised then all dogs can have pedigrees,

I hope so for you cause i remember you also thought your first litter would get pedigrees, but in the end they didn't , did they?!

Furthermore, i wonder, do you really think a picture is proof that there is no crossbreeding taking place?
call me stupid, but i much rather rely on dna testing! (which is very conclusive if ALL dogs are tested)

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by nanouk

I hope so for you cause i remember you also thought your first litter would get pedigrees, but in the end they didn't , did they?!

Furthermore, i wonder, do you really think a picture is proof that there is no crossbreeding taking place?
call me stupid, but i much rather rely on dna testing! (which is very conclusive if ALL dogs are tested)

yes your corect we had our first litter registered then they removed them , if all dogs were tested it would be great how many dogs listed on this forum are dna tested ? i breed my dogs from european bred dogs, the sires are all in europe, so i thought this would not be problem, you can view my pedigreees on line on wolfdog.org if there is anything incorrect please contact me, we do have unregistered pups and we still refuse to get licence for the dogs,

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi Ina, the De louba tar comment made me and others laugh, joke with a jag, best check your dogs as well you never know where de louba tar pops up or that is, if it is de louba tar,,, i dont think you will be the one who decides on weather the hip scoring results from uk are o.k on wolfdog.org at least we send them in,,, anyone who has interest on how our hip scoring works can mail me private, we assure all on wolfdog.org we only breed from very low scores, unfortunately hip scoring does not detect dogs that carry the displasia gene, nore does it detect such factors as diet and over excercise in young dogs, all can lead to hip problems,, have a nice day,,,paul

Paul, the question is that you have use Brix Bix de Louba Tar in your breeding, how do you know that he isn't a mix?
Have you do DNA tests in he before use?

About the hip degrees I find in OFFA site the differents hip registries used in some countries, that includes UK, but being this site international and CzW a FCI breed is better change the UK registries for FCI, that means A1 or A2 as all breeders and owners do.

Originally Posted by pacino

all breedings in Europe are logged and photos taken of each mating, so you can be assured that no cross breeding takes place, we have asked kennel club of uk

Lets see...
If is for we be assured by the fotos so, this low quality photo of Brix bix De Louba Tar seems that maybe he have long ears insert at side of the head, with a curious head format, maybe because the position of this photo his body seems more a potatoe with 4 toothpick... Its really difficult made a basic evaluation of one dog with good and some photos, its simply impossible with medium/bads and only one, as we can never use photos as assurance because nobody garantee that the dog at photo is really the same dog.

Originally Posted by Pacino

we have database of all dogs in uk, we need all records kept as we still fight to get the breed recognised and hope if it is all our paperwork will be accepted by the kennel club

Too as Kane, a CzW (??) who is father of a Utonagan litter mix done in UK and sold as "czech wolfdogs" by this "breeder"?
Won't that be a problem for you and for the breed in Uk?

Greetings

Paula

[Angelika]

Paul, I had a look at your website. If I´m right Defra still refuses the CzW to be removed from the "dangerous wild animal act".

So you are breeding dogs who have to be kept in the U.K. as dangerous wild animals?

I couldn´t find photos of your CzW and pups inside your home. Do you only keep them outside?

Princesse is the mother of the third litter in the U.K.? A CzW who unfortunately could not get much socialisation when she was a pup because she always had to be hidden from Defra?

And last but not least:

you keep a timberwolf among your CzW???

Might be better to give the answers myself - with your words "funny old place the U.K."

Angelika

[annomon]

Paul, it seems that you have a changeable point of view when it becomes the breed Louba Tar. First you start a smear campain against the breeder Louba Tar, and although your pictures showed skinny dogs in a mudpool, they are not abused and beaten, so what was all your hysteria about?! There is much worse and really horrifiying animal suffering to make a stand for.

And now you openly make fun of someone who has a ligitimate question about the Louba Tar breed. There ARE serious rumours about mixes between Saarloos and CsW at Louba Tar, and you HAVE a descendent from Louba Tar with whom you breed, so maybe there is some risk with that, because in the worst case your dog could contain some Saarloos blood. You can't denie that. You talk like you are the CsW-Einstein here, but you have a funny way of showing it: using photos as proof for the breeding , your strange reaction to a normal question about your HD-results, breeding a not official recognized breed (so there is no control on keeping a high breeding standard of the CsW, like there is in the rest of western europe) ... yes, I definitely agree with Angelika!

greetings Monique

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Angelika

Paul, I had a look at your website. If I´m right Defra still refuses the CzW to be removed from the "dangerous wild animal act".

So you are breeding dogs who have to be kept in the U.K. as dangerous wild animals?

I couldn´t find photos of your CzW and pups inside your home. Do you only keep them outside?

Princesse is the mother of the third litter in the U.K.? A CzW who unfortunately could not get much socialisation when she was a pup because she always had to be hidden from Defra?

And last but not least:

you keep a timberwolf among your CzW???

Might be better to give the answers myself - with your words "funny old place the U.K."

Angelika

hi yes are dogs are classified as dangerous wild animals and defra still refuse to remove them,, yes we are breeding dogs in uk classed as DWA , you can not find photos of my dogs in my home as they live in large pens outside, there excercise area is 3 acres in size, amazing how can you tell princess did not get socialised?? infact not one dog is hidden from defra, are dogs are in public all the time, openly shoen on web sites, very well socialised dogs, even been at crufts itself, and we have not complied with defra, we do not have there licence, and we are prepared to go to jail if nessesary to prove our point, are dogs live a great life and travel freely, my bitch went to holland to be mated last year, and came back to u.k,, no i keep a czech male with my timberwolf, i can run them all as a pack if i wish to do so, i used the czechs to train the wolf,, excellent,, regards paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Angelika

Paul, I had a look at your website. If I´m right Defra still refuses the CzW to be removed from the "dangerous wild animal act".

So you are breeding dogs who have to be kept in the U.K. as dangerous wild animals?

I couldn´t find photos of your CzW and pups inside your home. Do you only keep them outside?

Princesse is the mother of the third litter in the U.K.? A CzW who unfortunately could not get much socialisation when she was a pup because she always had to be hidden from Defra?

And last but not least:

you keep a timberwolf among your CzW???

Might be better to give the answers myself - with your words "funny old place the U.K."

Angelika

HI i have just talked to club members and we have decided as we dont have pedigree dogs, we may even have cross breeds, and we have ti listen to so called experts like you, we now ask the web master to please REMOVE ALL OUR DOGS AND LINKS FROM WOLLFDOG.ORG ALL OUR PEDIGREES TO BE REMOVED AND ALL OWNERS DETAILS REMOVED AS SOON AS POSSABLE. we will keep in contact with our many friends and breeders in europe by private mail, i will also come back to forum and report all that happens in court with de louba tar kennels, mr p winder czechoslovakian wolfdog club u.k..........

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by pacino

HI i have just talked to club members and we have decided as we dont have pedigree dogs, we may even have cross breeds, and we have ti listen to so called experts like you, we now ask the web master to please REMOVE ALL OUR DOGS AND LINKS FROM WOLLFDOG.ORG ALL OUR PEDIGREES TO BE REMOVED AND ALL OWNERS DETAILS REMOVED AS SOON AS POSSABLE. we will keep in contact with our many friends and breeders in europe by private mail, i will also come back to forum and report all that happens in court with de louba tar kennels, mr p winder czechoslovakian wolfdog club u.k..........

Amazing reaction, Paul. I used nothing else but your own words: "I can assure you all my Czech puppies in UK are very safe and well out of harms the sas couldn´t find them.....as for unexpected surprises.....for fear of persecution from Defra the puppies have all been moved to secret locations....." (see www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=690 ).

Lost their mother too soon, hidden from Defra - proper socialisation of puppies indeed.

It´s not my fault when you forget your own words. - For me: end of discussion.

Angelika

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Paul, the question is that you have use Brix Bix de Louba Tar in your breeding, how do you know that he isn't a mix?
Have you do DNA tests in he before use?

About the hip degrees I find in OFFA site the differents hip registries used in some countries, that includes UK, but being this site international and CzW a FCI breed is better change the UK registries for FCI, that means A1 or A2 as all breeders and owners do.


Lets see...
If is for we be assured by the fotos so, this low quality photo of Brix bix De Louba Tar seems that maybe he have long ears insert at side of the head, with a curious head format, maybe because the position of this photo his body seems more a potatoe with 4 toothpick... Its really difficult made a basic evaluation of one dog with good and some photos, its simply impossible with medium/bads and only one, as we can never use photos as assurance because nobody garantee that the dog at photo is really the same dog.



Too as Kane, a CzW (??) who is father of a Utonagan litter mix done in UK and sold as "czech wolfdogs" by this "breeder"?
Won't that be a problem for you and for the breed in Uk?

Greetings

Paula

hi brix was bred from a dog called Donis bonus and bitch called jolly seda eminence, both dog and bitch come from reputable breeders so if you think he looks like potatoe maybe you best mail them with your comments not me, now we can ask all on wolfdog.org what percentage of all dogs on web site have dna screening done, and as you hope to own one in the future will you insist on dna tested dog before importing? you may find it very hard to get dog... its true you cant tell if dog in photo is really that dog, unless of coarse you know that dog, same as you cant tell if father on pedigree is infact the father, dna test needed,,, so you will have some problems soon yourself, there is one litter of wolfdogs on this web site born in one country and registered in another, so they have fraudulent pedigrees, even worse some oof the litter have been used in breeding,,, i have told wolfdog.org but nothing has been sent to me for explation of my letter, you also need to look at dogs registered by FCI as czech wolfdogs that in no way met breed standards, these are numerous in france and are being bred into good lines by other breeders, so there is a lot you need to look for when buying a dog, we have no problems for our breedings in uk all dogs are pure czechs youu can only breed through the club,, anything you see advertised as czechs or wolfdogs or wolf crosses are nothing to do with our club and do not appear on our records, please dont be over concerned on our breeding in uk we hope you get a czech soon, we still fight for recognition of this breed and even after 6 yrs we still fight and still have no defra licence, if you get dedicated people like our club to help you will have good friends, they ALL risk going to Jail for there dogs.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi brix was bred from a dog called Donis bonus and bitch called jolly seda eminence, both dog and bitch come from reputable breeders so if you think he looks like potatoe maybe you best mail them with your comments not me,

Paul, you seems to have misunderstood Paola's point. I understood (and so did others) that the matching from which Brix was born took place at de Louba Tar, and YOU yourself claimed earlier that matchings there were not reliable...

Then how can you be sure that Brix was born from the parents indicated in the papers if, accordintg to your earlier statements, breeding at de LT was lousy? Take no offence, I'm just asking in an attempt to find any logic in all that.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Rona

Paul, you seems to have misunderstood Paola's point. I understood (and so did others) that the matching from which Brix was born took place at de Louba Tar, and YOU yourself claimed earlier that matchings there were not reliable...

Then how can you be sure that Brix was born from the parents indicated in the papers if, accordintg to your earlier statements, breeding at de LT was lousy? Take no offence, I'm just asking in an attempt to find any logic in all that.

Well, that´s at least three of us having the same questions you still didn´t answer.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Quiche

Hey,
Thanks for your answer;
Do you know if this person is an "official" breeder?
does he have good references and a good reputation?

thanks,

Quiche

hi quiche it seems that lots of people here question my breeding in u.k although my dogs are pure bred, as many mention here its best you seek dog in europe as they are all dna tested, then you will be sure, also we do not have registrations by uk kennel club, so as you can see by other posts most dont want us to breed here in uk. but you are still very welcome to come see our dogs, then you can judge for yourself, you will see my last litter now 14 mths old come up to breed standard a lot more than some dogs on this site, they also have better coats ,bone,and are very open dogs showing no shyness at all, we done research before choosing our stud dog from holland, and we bred back to regain the more wolf type looking dogs, its not always good to go forward, you may loose more than you gain, i have bred dogs for over 34 yrs, produced the top winning akita in america 2007 and in australia 2006-07, have studied genetics and health defects in animals worked and lived with wolves for many years, and have forgotten more about dogs than some people on here know about them, but they are all intitled to there say, i have looked at lots of pictures on this site from a lot of different countries and i can see distinct differences in appearence, hight,coat,colour and temperament in this breed, and i now know of one dwarf born. by the way the dwarf is a registered czech wolfdog with the FCI,,,and is on this site,, regards paul

[solowolf]

hi i have been reading these posts, we kept three of our pups from last litter two bitchs and one dog, of coarse czechoslovakian wolfdogs are little terrors thats what makes them more fun than normal type dogs, i think a lot of problems are comming from owners, possibly not enough time for pup or pups, my husband spends so many hours with the pups, he even sleeps with them a few nights when they are young, he plays as they like it very ruff,, he will spend time with all the pups playing then after few hours they will calm down, this is when he will spend about 10 minutes with each pup training them, one at a time, pups together are always up to mischief, its there nature, its the fun of owning wolfdogs, if you can not cope inform breeder its there responsability for the welfare of there pups, so Malgor as it is obvious you can not cope with the pups i suggest you return them to breeder before these pups are beyond training, forget about yourself and wanting to own a wolfdog if you think anything about the dogs do them a favour they have a life to live as well as you but they need help quickly, this is why we have only bred 2 litters in 6 yrs, its hard to get the correct type of people for this breed, often people will tell you all you want to hear as they have read up a bit on this breed, but lots of people tell porkies to get a pup.we have owned big dogs, had difficult breeds,,, no these are czechoslovakian wolfdogs and are completely different , and are the best breed of dog we have ever owned, mother nature herself with a bit of dog in there,,,,,, please contact us at [email protected] we will give you help and advice but you must at all times be completely honest with any questions we ask , my husband is due home on friday please contact him, regards mrs m winder

[neesk]

Originally Posted by solowolf

so Malgor as it is obvious you can not cope with the pups i suggest you return them to breeder before these pups are beyond training,

Hmm... That's rather presumptuous of you, is it not? Actually, I have a fair bit of experience with dogs, large and small, and I was simply pointing out that people (including previous posters) were not exaggerating the difficulties of bringing up these dogs. Yes, I *am* having problems with them, and they *are* turning all my expectations of training upside down - but to say that it is "obvious you can not cope" is (to be polite about it) presumptuous and arrogant. I am coping fine, thank you very much.

You know, I am repeatedly amazed on this forum that people who shout so loud about wanting to advance the breed (as all owners should), are so keen to attack newcomers - especially if those newcomers need some help. I simply wanted to know what worked for other people, to see if some of the answers could make life easier for me and my pups, and help the original poster - but I guess that was too much to ask. I guess the elitist csv 'experts' don't want anyone else to have one, since the general advice seems to be 'take them back, you can't handle them!'

Why, also, are you, Mrs Winder, so quick to assume that I am selfish?

Originally Posted by solowolf

forget about yourself and wanting to own a wolfdog if you think anything about the dogs do them a favour they have a life to live as well as you but they need help quickly

Perhaps you are afflicted by feelings of superiority, but I honestly wanted to get CSV's to help the breed grow in this country, and hopefully get them recognised by the KC. My, my, how selfish of me.

Originally Posted by solowolf

often people will tell you all you want to hear as they have read up a bit on this breed, but lots of people tell porkies to get a pup

Originally Posted by solowolf

...
please contact us at [email protected] we will give you help and advice but you must at all times be completely honest with any questions we ask , my husband is due home on friday please contact him, regards mrs m winder

Actually, no, I don't think I will. I have, in fact, already spoken to your husband, and it was he who directed me to the breeder - a fact which I appreciate. However, after speaking to him before, I was struck that he often puts himself across very poorly on forums, when in fact he is a very knowledgeable and pleasant chap on the phone. That said, having now been the focus of one 'solowolf's posts, I doubt I will deal with either of you again. Respect is hard to gain, but very easy to lose - and implying that I am a liar is a quick and easy way to do it. On that note, it is worth mentioning that it is the breeders responsibility to vet potential owners of their puppies.

For those who may be interested, our two puppies are now doing fairly well, and have started to settle in a bit better to training - though the dog is still a little on the dense side

Neesk, if you are still about (and repeated calls to give up haven't forced you to do so), I hope you are doing well with your pups. Feel free to PM or mail me, if you want, and I can tell you more about how I am coping with my 2+ a toddler.

-Malgor

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Malgor

Actually, no, I don't think I will. I have, in fact, already spoken to your husband, and it was he who directed me to the breeder - a fact which I appreciate. However, after speaking to him before, I was struck that he often puts himself across very poorly on forums, when in fact he is a very knowledgeable and pleasant chap on the phone. That said, having now been the focus of one 'solowolf's posts, I doubt I will deal with either of you again. Respect is hard to gain, but very easy to lose - and implying that I am a liar is a quick and easy way to do it. On that note, it is worth mentioning that it is the breeders responsibility to vet potential owners of their puppies.

For those who may be interested, our two puppies are now doing fairly well, and have started to settle in a bit better to training - though the dog is still a little on the dense side

Neesk, if you are still about (and repeated calls to give up haven't forced you to do so), I hope you are doing well with your pups. Feel free to PM or mail me, if you want, and I can tell you more about how I am coping with my 2+ a toddler.

-Malgor

you are very witty, lets just see how you cope, remember we and others have seen these dogs put to sleep because they did not get correct upbringing, you will learn more when these pups start to mature and loose respect, you mail worries a lot of people who are concerned for your dogs, people that have seen the results and dogs having to be destroyed. these are not ordinary dogs and dont ever think you can treat them as such you will loose, i think Andre wants to speak to you urgent why do you not answer the phone to her ?.m.winder