up date Dwarfism

[mijke]

As I did write before (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...light=dwarfism) the university in Utrecht (NL) has developed a test, which can determine the mutation of the gene that is responsible for dwarfism (achondroplasia).

Dwarfism is a nasty disorder which you don’t wish upon any breeder or dog. A dwarf has a badly developed hypophysis, which means that certain hormones (such as growth hormones) are not produced. Due to the shortage of the production of the thyroid stimulating hormone, they have a slow functioning thyroid. Besides the fact that these dogs stay small, they are also haunted by various nasty side effects (e.g. baldness, itching, inflammations, malfunctioning of the liver and kidneys, slow behaviour) when they are not treated with medicines on a daily basis.

Several Saarlooswolfdogs have already been tested. And with good breeding policy (no combinations carrier x carrier) dwarfs does not have to be born any longer in that breed.

SWH dwarf pup

But before we can test the CsW breed the university needs blood of a dwarf or his parents for validation of this test! )

After my last post I did receive a lot of “hear say” stories but not info about real dogs who could be tested. I also did have contact with the breeder of the dwarf CsW I know. The dwarf and his father did die in the meantime and the mother was replaced. In September she did tell me that she and the new owner want to cooperate. But till now the university did not receive any EDTA blood of this proven carrier of the mutated gen.

So till now it was not possible to validate the dwarfism test for the CsW breed.
And we still can’t test CsW for this mutation!


SWH litter with dwarf 4 weeks

Maybe we are lucky and there was only one dwarf born in the CsW population!
But… when this is not true, then carriers of this gen mutation for dwarfism can still spread this gen in the population….

And not always dwarfs are recognised in a litter! Dead born pups and pups behind in growth are often not recognised as dwarfs. And moreover then 90% of the living born dwarfs dies in the first week.

That is why I’ll give here some more info and photo’s about dwarfism.
Maybe somebody recognise one of these things and will cooperate for the validation of this test

Thanks to the cooperation of Audry (a Dutch SWH breeder, who did have also a dwarf in her litter) I also can show you some photo’s of a litter saarlooswolfdogs with a dwarf. (more info you can find in Dutch language on http://saarlooswolfhond.web-log.nl)

SWH Dwarf and litter mates on day 1 and 1, 2 and 3 weeks old

The CsW dwarf I know personal is Xenator Arni de Louba Tar. He is born from the combination Chrop z Kladenské záøe CS. x Dagaz Dille van de Kilstroom. (in this litter was besides Arni only 1 other pup born)
When they are the real parents, are they both proven carriers of the dwarf gen. Dagaz did have only this litter.
But Chrop was before this litter already used for covering and is father of 9 litters. (the mother of Dagaz was also from a combination with Chrop)
So in genetic view it is possible that Chrop did give this mutated gen also in other litters.

And because Utrecht could still not validate the test, we are still looking for a proven CsW dwarf or his parents (carriers of the mutated gen)!

For that reason I ‘ll add the list of all females who did have a litter in combination with Chrop.
Because maybe someone knows a dwarf or his parents in one of the offspring of this litters which can be tested

• Fela Hlas divoèiny CS (did give with Chrop the offspring: Bruno, Unit, Urakova, en Vasko / (priv. Roelants)
• Jolly ©edá eminence (did give with Chrop the offspring: Adjani Ceska, Aexcel Cesky, Alda Ceska, Amys Ceska, Ancora Minsk, Ankara Nandai, Armani Tsjechov, August Vito, Awakan Cesky, Januska Divka, Jelenicki Jupuler, Jenlain Saros, Jesek Tchechov, Jim Duvel, Jules Midas en Justine Stella Atoi/ de Louba Tar)
• Lexa ©edá eminence(did give with Chrop the offspring: Cabor Coriolan, Casca Trezor, Cayenne Pepr, Champs Elysees, Cheyenne Cukr, Cisty Camelot en Coca Priska/de Louba Tar
• And also of this female: (She did give in combination with Chrop the off spring: Nadjara Ceska, Nadyesdja Timber, Nessy Cheyenne, Nevick Nicolai, Nexus Titan, Nizza Pelops en Nocchi Leffe/ van Rijneckerhof)
• Besi Blue de Louba Tar (did give with Chrop the offspring: A-Tala Rainbow, Agor Ram, Aloha Rain Drop, Ama Retto, Arell Riva en Azzura Roma/DancingClouds)
• Fiala van Rijneckerhof (did give with Chrop the offspring: Santana Sykhs, Sire Vlcak en Sivy Shalimar/ de Louba Tar)
• Eloise attak Ken Sigel's (did give with Chrop the offspring: Oasis Sensi, Odin Thorgal, Oslo Tarmac, Otokar Oufir, Tscheska Esi, Tibris Tybbs, Tuff Enuff en Tuscani/de Louba Tar
• Dagaz Dille van de Kilstroom (did give with Chrop the offspring: Xenator Arni, en Xenos Xerxes/de Louba Tar

To be precise!! :

• It is definitely not the case that I want to suggest that these combinations or the offspring have given dwarfs or are carriers the dwarfism gen!!
• Only Chrop and Dagaz are proven to be carriers of the mutated gen, while they together got a puppy that is a dwarf
• And because Chrop with the already named bitches had litters, it is possible that he has given the gen for dwarfism to his offspring
• That is why we are searching for possible carriers of this gen in those combinations and their offspring.

SWH dwarf 4 months German shepherd dwarf 2 years

When I have received the French translation I’ll also add this article on the French forum.
Because I hope a lot of CsW owners will read this all and maybe somebody knows more and can help us.

You can contact me by PM or email [email protected]
In advance I would like to thank you for your cooperation!

Best regards,
Mijke

[Mikael]

Exellent Work Mijke

Very best regards / Mikael

[mijke]

Thanks!

[Nebulosa]

I know that in Spain have also some dogs wich have chrop pretty close or linebreeded in its line, maybe will be good I translate to spain?

[freewild]

hi

so so interresting information

if you like i would translate this topic

[Hanka]

Mijke, you have "interest" email from me

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by mijke

Thanks!

Ama retto is in u.k. i know she was sold on and that she has been neutered as she was to small and not suitable to breed from, it could be possable to get sample from her,, i have photo of this litter suckling from bessi blue at 3 weeks old all pups are of good size and equal, however they never made good height at 1 yr old, i also have photos, will send thenm to you via email,, pacino

[mijke]

Originally Posted by solowolf

Ama retto is in u.k. i know she was sold on and that she has been neutered as she was to small and not suitable to breed from, it could be possable to get sample from her,,

Dogs that don't have the right size for a CSW (to small) are not really dwarfs.
So Utrecht don't need EDTA blood of them

[mijke]

I did receive the CD of Paul. I did hope it had something to do something with this topic.
But the info on this CD is not relevant at all for this topic.
So I’ll not give any comment on this CD in this topic.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by mijke

Dogs that don't have the right size for a CSW (to small) are not really dwarfs.
So Utrecht don't need EDTA blood of them

so what your saying it dosnt matter if they are carrier ???? pacino

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by mijke

As I did write before (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...light=dwarfism) the university in Utrecht (NL) has developed a test, which can determine the mutation of the gene that is responsible for dwarfism (achondroplasia).

Mijke i dont want info but if i send you link via cross breeding from czech to saarloos i hope it may help as i am sure you may find certain dogs in the saarloos lines and mybe this can be stopped before it can escalate regards pacino

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Well then you should hurry and send it.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Well then you should hurry and send it.

dont worry i have sent info to a member on this site with all related links to cross breedings, photos, breeders, registrations, and can now work together as i have gathered info for many years from all over europe, as i always stated i only work with facts not hearsay and now the facts will be proven to be 100% true, you told us all in post that you know of saarloos x CWD ? how long you know??? long time, yes i know you do,,,,, i lived in Europe for 4 yrs,,,,,and have many many friends, you also mention my breeding, please check pedigrees of my offspring for inbreeding, i did go to the trouble of traveling to europe to breed my two bitchs, the other breedings you talk of are not me,,, my stock is all health checked and i breed good dogs, i travel to europe soon to get new bitch and new dog for my breeding, outcross bloodlines, you have info on cross breedings as you stated,, WELL THEN YOU SHOULD HURRY AND SEND IT YOU VE KNOWN ABOUT IT LONG ENOUGH,,, i am working with serious people on this work it affects the dogs and there future so i would appreshiate it if you dont slag me of on any more posts with your witty comments i have taken enough of it, if you havve nothing positive that may help then watch t.v. or take the dogs for walk. pacino

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Still big words, no proofs.

You lived in Europe for 4 years? Till now I thought GB was a member of the European Union and of the continent itself but well...
We traveled to other countries meeting owners, breeders, dogs a far longer time than that and we came much further than Italy, France and NL. We managed to visit Slovakia, The Czech Repuplik at least once a year, we picked up our dog there, we went to Bonitations there with our dogs, we helped other people to find good dogs and good blood for our country. We organized and helped organizing the Club shows and Bonitations in Germany with judges specialized on the breed and members of the original Clubs and breeders since the beginning of the breed. My husband and me have been founders of the first German Club and members of it´s head for I think 8 years (it may be longer I am not bothered to count).

Looking at what you choiced and what you did I am not very impressed, sorry.

If you really would have found proof and managed to close a bad breeder down that surely would be a point for you, till that only big words.

Ina

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by mijke

As I did write before (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...light=dwarfism) the university in Utrecht (NL) has developed a test, which can determine the mutation of the gene that is responsible for dwarfism (achondroplasia).

Dwarfism is a nasty disorder which you don’t wish upon any breeder or dog. A dwarf has a badly developed hypophysis, which means that certain hormones (such as growth hormones) are not produced. Due to the shortage of the production of the thyroid stimulating hormone, they have a slow functioning thyroid. Besides the fact that these dogs stay small, they are also haunted by various nasty side effects (e.g. baldness, itching, inflammations, malfunctioning of the liver and kidneys, slow behaviour) when they are not treated with medicines on a daily basis.

Several Saarlooswolfdogs have already been tested. And with good breeding policy (no combinations carrier x carrier) dwarfs does not have to be born any longer in that breed.

SWH dwarf pup

But before we can test the CsW breed the university needs blood of a dwarf or his parents for validation of this test! )

After my last post I did receive a lot of “hear say” stories but not info about real dogs who could be tested. I also did have contact with the breeder of the dwarf CsW I know. The dwarf and his father did die in the meantime and the mother was replaced. In September she did tell me that she and the new owner want to cooperate. But till now the university did not receive any EDTA blood of this proven carrier of the mutated gen.

So till now it was not possible to validate the dwarfism test for the CsW breed.
And we still can’t test CsW for this mutation!


SWH litter with dwarf 4 weeks

Maybe we are lucky and there was only one dwarf born in the CsW population!
But… when this is not true, then carriers of this gen mutation for dwarfism can still spread this gen in the population….

And not always dwarfs are recognised in a litter! Dead born pups and pups behind in growth are often not recognised as dwarfs. And moreover then 90% of the living born dwarfs dies in the first week.

That is why I’ll give here some more info and photo’s about dwarfism.
Maybe somebody recognise one of these things and will cooperate for the validation of this test

Thanks to the cooperation of Audry (a Dutch SWH breeder, who did have also a dwarf in her litter) I also can show you some photo’s of a litter saarlooswolfdogs with a dwarf. (more info you can find in Dutch language on http://saarlooswolfhond.web-log.nl)

SWH Dwarf and litter mates on day 1 and 1, 2 and 3 weeks old

The CsW dwarf I know personal is Xenator Arni de Louba Tar. He is born from the combination Chrop z Kladenské záøe CS. x Dagaz Dille van de Kilstroom. (in this litter was besides Arni only 1 other pup born)
When they are the real parents, are they both proven carriers of the dwarf gen. Dagaz did have only this litter.
But Chrop was before this litter already used for covering and is father of 9 litters. (the mother of Dagaz was also from a combination with Chrop)
So in genetic view it is possible that Chrop did give this mutated gen also in other litters.

And because Utrecht could still not validate the test, we are still looking for a proven CsW dwarf or his parents (carriers of the mutated gen)!

For that reason I ‘ll add the list of all females who did have a litter in combination with Chrop.
Because maybe someone knows a dwarf or his parents in one of the offspring of this litters which can be tested

• Fela Hlas divoèiny CS (did give with Chrop the offspring: Bruno, Unit, Urakova, en Vasko / (priv. Roelants)
• Jolly ©edá eminence (did give with Chrop the offspring: Adjani Ceska, Aexcel Cesky, Alda Ceska, Amys Ceska, Ancora Minsk, Ankara Nandai, Armani Tsjechov, August Vito, Awakan Cesky, Januska Divka, Jelenicki Jupuler, Jenlain Saros, Jesek Tchechov, Jim Duvel, Jules Midas en Justine Stella Atoi/ de Louba Tar)
• Lexa ©edá eminence(did give with Chrop the offspring: Cabor Coriolan, Casca Trezor, Cayenne Pepr, Champs Elysees, Cheyenne Cukr, Cisty Camelot en Coca Priska/de Louba Tar
• And also of this female: (She did give in combination with Chrop the off spring: Nadjara Ceska, Nadyesdja Timber, Nessy Cheyenne, Nevick Nicolai, Nexus Titan, Nizza Pelops en Nocchi Leffe/ van Rijneckerhof)
• Besi Blue de Louba Tar (did give with Chrop the offspring: A-Tala Rainbow, Agor Ram, Aloha Rain Drop, Ama Retto, Arell Riva en Azzura Roma/DancingClouds)
• Fiala van Rijneckerhof (did give with Chrop the offspring: Santana Sykhs, Sire Vlcak en Sivy Shalimar/ de Louba Tar)
• Eloise attak Ken Sigel's (did give with Chrop the offspring: Oasis Sensi, Odin Thorgal, Oslo Tarmac, Otokar Oufir, Tscheska Esi, Tibris Tybbs, Tuff Enuff en Tuscani/de Louba Tar
• Dagaz Dille van de Kilstroom (did give with Chrop the offspring: Xenator Arni, en Xenos Xerxes/de Louba Tar

To be precise!! :

• It is definitely not the case that I want to suggest that these combinations or the offspring have given dwarfs or are carriers the dwarfism gen!!
• Only Chrop and Dagaz are proven to be carriers of the mutated gen, while they together got a puppy that is a dwarf
• And because Chrop with the already named bitches had litters, it is possible that he has given the gen for dwarfism to his offspring
• That is why we are searching for possible carriers of this gen in those combinations and their offspring.

SWH dwarf 4 months German shepherd dwarf 2 years

When I have received the French translation I’ll also add this article on the French forum.
Because I hope a lot of CsW owners will read this all and maybe somebody knows more and can help us.

You can contact me by PM or email [email protected]
In advance I would like to thank you for your cooperation!

Best regards,
Mijke

your words in this post are as follows
Only Chrop and Dagaz are proven to be carriers of the mutated gen, while they together got a puppy that is a dwarf
And because Chrop with the already named bitches had litters, it is possible that he has given the gen for dwarfism to his offspring
That is why we are searching for possible carriers of this gen in those combinations and their offspring.
i offer you test from direct offspring of Chrop, i offer to bring this bitch to vet of your choice to europe, YOU REFUSE now without any bu..sh..t or feebile excuses tell us all WHY? for it is very important for your research to have a sample from this bitch, Mijke i send you CD, my friends tell me i sent cd to Chameleon i think they are right,,,,,,,, why not send me mother and fathers name of Dwarf pups,, save yourself lots of work but even better stop quickly the line to save more Dwarfs being born,,,,,, think about the dogs not self glory ..............very dissapointed Pacino and friends all watching this site for your updates on Dwarfisum,

[Nebulosa]

because Mijke need the blood of a comproved carrier dog, a dog wich have make a puppie with this problem or the blood of a Dwarf dog. Be offspring of Chrop don't mean be carrier of the gene.

[mijke]

[quote=solowolf;179202]i offer you test from direct offspring of Chrop, i offer to bring this bitch to vet of your choice to europe, YOU REFUSE now without any bu..sh..t or feebile excuses tell us all WHY? [quote]

For your info I did not refuse anything, I even did not have contact with you. I only had not time to answer sooner in this topic.

But: First the university need to validate the test in the way Nebulosa did explain you again.

Only when this test validated for the CsW breed, all other owners can test their dog for this mutated gen to see if they are carriers.

But on this moment this is still not possible and that is all.

[jmvdwiel]

a little thing about the genetics (probably unnescesary for most of the people here)

A dwarf is homozygote for the dwarg gen. (two gens for dwarf one inherited from the mother and one inherited from the father)
A carrier is heterozygoot for the dwarg gen and is healthy him/herself. it has a healthy gen and a dwarf gen (one inherited from the father or the mother)
a healthy dog doesn't carrie the dwarf gen, this dog has two healthy gens.

A dwarf dies or is recognised as a dog you do not breed with

If you breed with two carriers, a qwart of al the puppies is going to be a dwarf (statisticly), 1/2 is going to be a carier again, and another 1/4 are going to be healty dogs.
So to validate the test you must test the dwarf or the parents, if you test the other pups it could be that you wil test the healthy pup and so this test cannot be validated.

if you breed a carries with a healthy dog (without the gen) only healthy (1/2) and carries(1/2) are going to be born.

So if this test can be used with our breed, you can stil breed with al the carriers if the other dog is healthy(doesn't carry the gen) so no new dwarf wil be born. So no dogs has to be ruled out as a breeding dog that is good because there aren't that many dogs so that we can be very picky