de Louba Tar kennel

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by pacino

so you say dogs come back with stong temper, spirit or caracter, This is because no one had time to socialise the pups as there was to much work with the 100 plus other dogs

What I was saying is that if people who took a dog of this breed, not normally think they have such a strong breed. So they can not cope with the breed themselves. They made the wrong choice by taking such a dog and were more better to have another dog like a golden retriever or something. If you choose for a czech you need to know enough of the dog to cope with it. People do not often know that. By that time the dogs always can go back to her. So this has nothing to do with socialise the pups. They most socialise when they are with their new owner, if they can cope with the dog no problems at all, as I can see with the two dogs my friend has from this breeder.

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

So this has nothing to do with socialise the pups. They most socialise when they are with their new owner, if they can cope with the dog no problems at all, as I can see with the two dogs my friend has from this breeder.

No, the socialising MUST start at the breeder already. The most important socialising period window is opened only from about 5 to 12 weeks of age of the puppy. That´s too short time to ignore the pups psychical needs and just leave it to the new owner, especially if he/she is inexperienced.

Not to mention, that nobody should sell CSW to owner, who cannot cope. Sure, mistakes happen and we cannot always guess, what will happen in future, but mass producers and puppy mills are known to sell to anyone to make profit, ignoring the welfare of the pups. Saying that the pup can always go back, if things don´t work, is rather horrible. Sure, it is nice if it can, but it should be only in critical situations, not as a rule. Such master changes are terrible for such inteligent dog as CSW.

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

No, the socialising MUST start at the breeder already. The most important socialising period window is opened only from about 5 to 12 weeks of age of the puppy. That´s too short time to ignore the pups psychical needs and just leave it to the new owner, especially if he/she is inexperienced.

Not to mention, that nobody should sell CSW to owner, who cannot cope. Sure, mistakes happen and we cannot always guess, what will happen in future, but mass producers and puppy mills are known to sell to anyone to make profit, ignoring the welfare of the pups. Saying that the pup can always go back, if things don´t work, is rather horrible. Sure, it is nice if it can, but it should be only in critical situations, not as a rule. Such master changes are terrible for such inteligent dog as CSW.

You must be very educated or certain if you can see somebody who cannot cope a CWS and then do not sell a CWS to this person. Normally a pup will give not the main problem, but usually the dogs that are have their puber period.
I think that mw. Keizer is not up to mass production to sell CWS to make a profit. Every money she get from selling a CWS is always going back in to the kennel. And if she was, than there will be not as many dogs as Paul let believe us in her kennel.

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

You must be very educated or certain if you can see somebody who cannot cope a CWS and then do not sell a CWS to this person. Normally a pup will give not the main problem, but usually the dogs that are have their puber period.

Please, read my post very carefully, before replying. I said:

Not to mention, that nobody should sell CSW to owner, who cannot cope. Sure, mistakes happen and we cannot always guess, what will happen in future, but mass producers and puppy mills are known to sell to anyone to make profit, ignoring the welfare of the pups.

I disagree that the new owners can easily cope with a puppy than with teenage dog. I´ve heard from other breeders about puppies given back at age of 2-3 months, because the new owner found them too wild, too aggressive , too temperament... The pups were normal, but the new owners were not able to cope, perhaps with a labrador, maybe. Yes, second stage is the teenage dog, but once the owner made it up to here through all the destroyed furniture, eaten shoes, socks and kitchen utensils, there´s chance he´ll stand by his dog.

Originally Posted by Joyce

I think that mw. Keizer is not up to mass production to sell CWS to make a profit. Every money she get from selling a CWS is always going back in to the kennel. And if she was, than there will be not as many dogs as Paul let believe us in her kennel.

Are you kidding? So you say, that she keeps 119 dogs in kennels built for 49 for the love of the dogs? Sorry, but I don´t believe it, even if there was actually less than 119 skinny dogs. Even owning 49 dogs for me and breeding on them is not for me breeding for love, care, health and improvement of the breed, but for money. In this I agree totally with what Ina and Annomon said here.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

Please, read my post very carefully, before replying. I said:


I disagree that the new owners can easily cope with a puppy than with teenage dog. I´ve heard from other breeders about puppies given back at age of 2-3 months, because the new owner found them too wild, too aggressive , too temperament... The pups were normal, but the new owners were not able to cope, perhaps with a labrador, maybe. Yes, second stage is the teenage dog, but once the owner made it up to here through all the destroyed furniture, eaten shoes, socks and kitchen utensils, there´s chance he´ll stand by his dog.



Are you kidding? So you say, that she keeps 119 dogs in kennels built for 49 for the love of the dogs? Sorry, but I don´t believe it, even if there was actually less than 119 skinny dogs. Even owning 49 dogs for me and breeding on them is not for me breeding for love, care, health and improvement of the breed, but for money. In this I agree totally with what Ina and Annomon said here.

hi i have photos of every dog in every kennel or pen all taken on same day, also with me were my friends from Holland who also took photos of all dogs, with all dogs and counting two litters of puppies there was total of 119 dogs, i have photos as do my friends in Holland, if you look i will put photo on my wed site you can see young czech and saarloos in ONE pen 7 dogs, paul

[Joyce]

Mirkawolf, please read my message also carefully, because I did not say:
- that the new owners can easily cope with a puppy
I said that a pup will not give the main problem

As I also did not say:
- So you say, that she keeps 119 dogs in kennels built for 49 for the love of the dogs?
This is wat I have said:
I think that mw. Keizer is not up to mass production to sell CWS to make a profit. Every money she get from selling a CWS is always going back in to the kennel. And if she was, than there will be not as many dogs as Paul let believe us in her kennel.

[Mirkawolf]

Joyce, I´ve read you very carefully and that´s why I said what I said. And even after your last post, I don´t mean to change a word on what I´ve said.
Sorry.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Joyce

This is wat I have said:
I think that mw. Keizer is not up to mass production to sell CWS to make a profit. Every money she get from selling a CWS is always going back in to the kennel. And if she was, than there will be not as many dogs as Paul let believe us in her kennel.

Following what you have written, she is breeding to earn money to keep an enormous amount of dogs. No matter if there are 119 of them, she definetly has a lot more than the normal amount of a hobby breeder. And dogs cost quite a lot of money if you keep them properly. If this would be true I know several stories like hers from my work in an animal-shelter, they always end up with the police getting the dogs out of incredible circumstances and an animal-shelter full of dirty and ill dogs. And you are right those people don´t have that many dogs, only about three times what they can cope with.
Out of my personal experiences does what you write make things worse and Paul´s story more reliable.

And she needs money for herself too, so there is an easy way to find out if she produces puppies for a living. Maybe somebody here who seems to know her well can tell us what job she has to make up for her own needs, her profession shouldn´t be a personal secret.

Ina

[Joyce]

No breeder is just a breeder for hobby. You always get money from selling a dog with a pedigree. It depends only what you do with the money.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Following what you have written, she is breeding to earn money to keep an enormous amount of dogs. No matter if there are 119 of them, she definetly has a lot more than the normal amount of a hobby breeder. And dogs cost quite a lot of money if you keep them properly. If this would be true I know several stories like hers from my work in an animal-shelter, they always end up with the police getting the dogs out of incredible circumstances and an animal-shelter full of dirty and ill dogs. And you are right those people don´t have that many dogs, only about three times what they can cope with.
Out of my personal experiences does what you write make things worse and Paul´s story more reliable.

And she needs money for herself too, so there is an easy way to find out if she produces puppies for a living. Maybe somebody here who seems to know her well can tell us what job she has to make up for her own needs, her profession shouldn´t be a personal secret.

Ina

hi Mrs Keizer does not work, and did not work all time i was there, i know she does not work for many years from talking to friends of hers but as you know i only give facts, all the time i was there only money from Holland and pups for income, paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

What I was saying is that if people who took a dog of this breed, not normally think they have such a strong breed. So they can not cope with the breed themselves. They made the wrong choice by taking such a dog and were more better to have another dog like a golden retriever or something. If you choose for a czech you need to know enough of the dog to cope with it. People do not often know that. By that time the dogs always can go back to her. So this has nothing to do with socialise the pups. They most socialise when they are with their new owner, if they can cope with the dog no problems at all, as I can see with the two dogs my friend has from this breeder.

why do you keep making me embrasses you on line, if you think socialisation starts with new owner then it must be done different where you live,, it starts much sooner i can assure you, paul