Epilepsy and wolfdogs!?

[loco]

Sorry forgot .
Also the discussion goes.
How do you really know when it is primair and secundair we al know what is the diffrent but.....................
Should you trust the first veterinair, our should you go for a second opinion ???????? if the first say it is primair!!!

Groette Martine.

[loco]

And now it will be very intresting to also know how many cases there are known in Italie, France and the other country in Europe .

Groette Martine.

[Margo]

Originally Posted by loco

How do you really know when it is primair and secundair we al know what is the diffrent but.....................
Should you trust the first veterinair, our should you go for a second opinion ???????? if the first say it is primair!!!

Primary epilepsy is a genetic based inheritated type of epilepsy. So far there are NO diagnostics which can make the vet sure it is exactly such type...
Allthe vet can do is to rule out all other possibilities. So it means it is primar GENETIC epilepsy when it is not caused by:

* Brain Tumors
* Head Trama
* Infection, Cysts and Cancer
* Lead, Chemicals, Additives and Poisoning
* Liver Disease
* Low Blood Sugar
* Renal Kidney Failure
* Severe Worm Infestation
* Vaccinations
* Vitamin Deficiencies
* Abuse or neglect
* Air fresheners
* All toxic flea products
* BHA - a preservative commonly found in dog foods
* BHT- a preservative commonly found in dog foods
* Carpet powders
* Cell Phones
* Cigarette smoke
* Dryer sheets
* Dust
* Eating cat or dog feces
* Ethoxyquin- a preservative commonly found in dog foods
* Excessive exercise
* Fabric softeners
* Fumes from all bathroom cleaners
* Fumes from bleach
* Fumes from dusting products
* Fungi, Bacteria and Germs
* Hair spray
* Heartworm Pills
* Household cleaners, including pine cleaners
* Loud noises
* Low quality canned dog food
* Low quality commercial dog biscuits and treats
* Low quality dry dog food
* Lyme Encephalitis
* Lyme Vaccine
* Mold
* Overheating
* Paint chips from lead based paint
* Paint fumes
* Plastic bowls
* Rabies Vaccine
* Rawhides
* Red food dye- a preservative commonly found in dog foods
* Salt, Sugar, Aspartame, Monosodium Glutamate
* Scented candles
* Sodium Nitrate
* Stress
* Toxic flea collars
* Toxic shampoos and dips
* Vaccinations
* Vitamins with high sodium level

So much theory... And the reality is: the vets are saying it is primar when they do not find the reason for it... You see it is simple not possible to rule out all the possible reasons... So all they make are more or less tests (blood, usg, aso...) - in the most cases they check ONLY the blood... and done... for them it is primar...

But to be honest - when you see this list a vet can NEVER say it is primar - till there will be no DNA tests...

[loco]

oeps sorry.
But I hope that you copypaste the list .

Back to Topic,

That is mine point exactly, to have peace with "if we can not find anything thene" it will be .......(in this case Primair Epilepsy) .

For myself ( mine dog) I will defintly want I second opinion if not a third a fourth and so on.
I know it is not surtern until there is a DNA, but vets also make mistake's it will defintly not be the first time there is something they missed specialie when you see the list .

Groette Martine.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by loco

oeps sorry.
But I hope that you copypaste the list .

Back to Topic,

That is mine point exactly, to have peace with "if we can not find anything thene" it will be .......(in this case Primair Epilepsy) .

For myself ( mine dog) I will defintly want I second opinion if not a third a fourth and so on.
I know it is not surtern until there is a DNA, but vets also make mistake's it will defintly not be the first time there is something they missed specialie when you see the list .

Groette Martine.

They say it's the primary epilepsy because it's safe. When they not know the cause and have the possibility to be a genetic disease, it's better not uses this dog on reproduction because the risk.
Supose the vet say that this epilepsy may be not genetic, you make a litter and born puppies with the problem, the vet will be guilty because he was irresponsible.

[Xhrista]

I think epilepsie (and every other ilniss) is genetic,only the way how is the Question.So you must never breed with A dog that have an ilniss.And look good to the other dogs in the line.Thats the only thing you could do.

Gr. Christa

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Xhrista

I think epilepsie (and every other ilniss) is genetic,only the way how is the Question.So you must never breed with A dog that have an ilniss.And look good to the other dogs in the line.Thats the only thing you could do.

Gr. Christa

So, you have a healty dog, this dog receive a strong beat in head by accident, after it he start with seizures time to time and turn in a epileptic dog, this epilepsy will be genetic?!
Really not, this epileptic dog can safelly be used in reproduction and he won't pass the problem, because he not have it in hiis genetic, an accident causes it.

[jmvdwiel]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

So, you have a healty dog, this dog receive a strong beat in head by accident, after it he start with seizures time to time and turn in a epileptic dog, this epilepsy will be genetic?!
Really not, this epileptic dog can safelly be used in reproduction and he won't pass the problem, because he not have it in hiis genetic, an accident causes it.

The question is if someone should want to use this dog, if the dog owner is completely honest about his dog.... I personally would not use this dog... there are enough 'healthy' dogs to use

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Xhrista

I think epilepsie (and every other ilniss) is genetic,only the way how is the Question.

I was looking for some statistics and found this: before in the most cases the vets classified most cases of epilepsy as idiopathic (it means genetic based). But there were some studies done in Denemark and published in the 'Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine' in June 2008. And the results were:
- 25% of cases were classified as idiopathic - GENETIC based
- 16% as symptomatic (cause unknown)
- 45% as cryptogenic epilepsy (cause unknown)
- in 14% of these a classification was not possible

You can not say about epilepsy as 'genetic' illenes when only 1/4 of the cases have something to do with genetic based reasons...

I agree we must note such cases and not use any dogs where it is not 100% sure the epilepsy is a secondary epilepsy... To be relly sure we can not use any dogs with epilepsy... But it is really not needed to start any witch hunt...