Offspring´s

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Inbreeding is for professionals

Read Elf´s link and get back to me about the proffessional part

I think the problem might be that future breeders will have no choice,
if the population of CsV are totaly inbreed already when they start

Regards / Mikael

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Read Elf´s link and get back to me about the proffessional part

I think the problem might be that future breeders will have no choice,
if the population of CsV are totaly inbreed already when they start

Regards / Mikael

Please, don't tell me what to do and I will not tell you where to go.

Somehow it doesn't seem to be SUCH a problem in our breed Not that hard to find a stud, which is not closely related with your female.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Please, don't tell me what to do and I will not tell you where to go.

Somehow it doesn't seem to be SUCH a problem in our breed Not that hard to find a stud, which is not closely related with your female.

Sorry, I did mean...

PLEASE, Read Elf´s link and get back to me about the proffessional part

And maby then you will se this all as a problem ???

Best regards / Mikael

[elf]

Somehow it doesn't seem to be SUCH a problem in our breed Not that hard to find a stud, which is not closely related with your female.

I have a darker view. It's currently not easy to mate two CsV and get a COI less than 20% on the full pedigree (and I guess nearly impossible less than 15%). Nowadays example, last 5 mating announced on this site: 18.53%, 23.72%, 30.89%, 20.78%, 27.10%. These numbers carry meaning.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by elf

I have a darker view. It's currently not easy to mate two CsV and get a COI less than 20% on the full pedigree (and I guess nearly impossible less than 15%). Nowadays example, last 5 mating announced on this site: 18.53%, 23.72%, 30.89%, 20.78%, 27.10%. These numbers carry meaning.

please cann thake link to this mate? thanks.

[elf]

Originally Posted by wolfin

please cann thake link to this mate? thanks.

I did not go complicated , just took the last five announced on the site:

http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/956.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/953.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/951.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/942.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/940.html

[wolfin]

no izvini- niemogu etovo dat secret info from ones russian kennel.

[elf]

Originally Posted by wolfin

no izvini- niemogu etovo dat secret info from ones russian kennel.

Vsyo u vas tam zasecrecheno, hot i SSSR davno ne suchshestvuet Mozhet byt, v drugoi raz ...

[wolfin]

sorry I live in Lithua not Russia and pasport have lithua, and please no name me like russian people, but material have in russish, polish, czech, slovakian lanquaqe.

[elf]

Originally Posted by wolfin

sorry I live in Lithua not Russia and pasport have lithua, and please no name me like russian people, but material have in russish, polish, czech, slovakian lanquaqe.

Would be glad you make me a sum up of the material you have when you have time.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by elf

I have a darker view. It's currently not easy to mate two CsV and get a COI less than 20% on the full pedigree (and I guess nearly impossible less than 15%). Nowadays example, last 5 mating announced on this site: 18.53%, 23.72%, 30.89%, 20.78%, 27.10%. These numbers carry meaning.

Thanks for this info, it is horrible numbers, but I´m not suprised

Regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

What kind of inbreeding diseases will show up first,
Are there any common signs to look for ???

What is normaly a healthy % of COI ???

How hard will it be to get the COI back to 15% from 20-30% on a total pedigree ???

Regards / Mikael

[elf]

What is normaly a healthy % of COI ???

Depends... because first it's needed to breed away for harmful alleles, only then one can breed for diversity. On the other side it has been proved many times higher inbreeded dogs lived some years less than lower inbreeded dogs (same for genetic diseases incidence).
Nowadays for the CsV, breeders should try to be less than 10% on five generations (as this is the mean value on 5 generations).

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by elf

Depends... because first it's needed to breed away for harmful alleles, only then one can breed for diversity. On the other side it has been proved many times higher inbreeded dogs lived some years less than lower inbreeded dogs (same for genetic diseases incidence).
Nowadays for the CsV, breeders should try to be less than 10% on five generations (as this is the mean value on 5 generations).

Thanks ones again for your answers elf

To get the COI % back to normal on some lines whit the breeding plan of some breeders here are therefore impossible as I se it, especially when some breeders work in the opposite direction

I also wonder way the owners of this dogs do not wont to give there opinion on the current situation...

Numbers of offsprings 10 topplist on CsV born after year 2000.

47 offsprings 2002.12.31 Baron spod Ïumbiera
48 offsprings 2001.12.03 Batt Malý Bysterec
54 offsprings 2004.01.31 Merlin Crying Wolf
51 offsprings 2000.10.06 Rendy ---Passo del Lupo---
55 offsprings 2001.12.04 Edgar Passo del Lupo
60 offsprings 2004.11.11 Vaicko Passo del Lupo
73 offsprings 2003.04.18 Timber Wolf Arimminum
82 offsprings 2002.10.15 Duncan ---Colle del Lupo---
135 offsprings 2001.04.12 Cutt ---dell'Irco Sortiere---
151 offsprings 2002.10.03 Miky Passo del Lupo

Or are they so over the high % of COI on are breed that they can not speak...

Regards / Mikael