Champions, world champions, super champions

[Rona]

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

Exactly, dear "jasmine" ! Just this i have also told before ...
And a World Champion "Harmonia Eden severu " with bonitation code

A62.5 F2 K1 Oc R1 P3

F2 = long ears

K1 = too long tail

Oc =irritable - uncourages

and P 3 NOT a P1 in bonitation- code , with two grandparents with HD- result "C" (!) can without any doubt not be compared with Amore Mio!

Greetings from Germany

Silvester, I don't want to take sides in this conflict, I don't understand what's going on here and where the problem is, but your posts are really funny!!!

Are you aware that your friend Carlos, selected Harmonia, the 'ugly' female WW 2006 with too long ears, too long tail, uncourages and irritable to be the mother of the male he bought from Daiva?
I don't know the dog, but I know the parents and belive me, they are great! Both Cheitan and Harmonia have something, that for me (a non-breeder) is most important in a dog: fantastic characters and working drive. Plus this 'something', sometimes called "charisma", of which you can say nothing if you haven't seen them interacting with humans and other dogs...

Please, think before you write your next post, unless you want to give us more entertainment... and further ridicule Carlos' kennel He does not deserve allies like you.

[wolfin]

Rona, thanks
Jasmine, Daniela, and others, ALL dogs is nice, and the best for his owner. And IDEAL dog not exist, all have faults.
and in breeding moore imporant is not Ch titles but others things, or would You think otherwise?

[Erwan Grey]

Originariamente inviata da wolfin

Rona, thanks
Jasmine, Daniela, and others, ALL dogs is nice, and the best for his owner. And IDEAL dog not exist, all have faults.
and in breeding moore imporant is not Ch titles but others things, or would You think otherwise?

applause. This is the best direcction of a good breeder in my opinion

[CDaniela]

Originariamente inviata da wolfin

Rona, thanks
Jasmine, Daniela, and others, ALL dogs is nice, and the best for his owner. And IDEAL dog not exist, all have faults.
and in breeding moore imporant is not Ch titles but others things, or would You think otherwise?

No, but you're talking about titles and beauty. Amore Mio is an active, healthy dog, friendly to people and it is most important. His exterior is only a bonus.

[wolfin]

Originariamente inviata da CDaniela

No, but you're talking about titles and beauty. Amore Mio is an active, healthy dog, friendly to people and it is most important. His exterior is only a bonus.

Yes, he are good, typical wolfdog, but can be better like and others alls wolfdog. EXELENT-IDEAL dog not exist breeder wish have this one, but this is like utopia and its very good, we can work, work and work

[Silvester]

This is what I have REALLY posted:

But i can understand you , "Nebulosa" :

Yes, it´s very difficult to find something negative in the pedigree of the first litter of the actuell World Champion and were all 4 grandparents have an "P1" in bonitation -code for "excellent"....beside other advantages like hip-results ( i already told ) , colour of eyes, quality of hair and coat , small ears and correct short tail, and, and , and....

You left away the main part !

(This main part was written by ME , not by YOU, you are right !
It was a writing/ printing mistake only.Sorry to this.)

But this you have been writing:

Originally posted by "Nebulosa":
But let me show you something that can be a shock for someone who only accept the existance of A dogs, the full brother of Bluebell, Baschan, is D, as some of her brothers have C results.

So, I think its time to wake up and at least try to understand what is selection, and that in dog breed does not exist perfect dog, sorry to say, but if you even tough that the line of your dog was the "most healty and clean of the breed" you were mistaken, its a line which need a lot of selection, as 99% of whole breed, and its a very important info if you even think about breed with your "perfect dog", open the eyes and see the truth can hurt, but its needed for the breed selection.

Do you think i don´t know already all this ??And about the other three ancestors of Carlos´litter you were talking about before?

Of course i know!

And i say it again: About "Perfect dog" I have never spoken - only you .

I´m betting at last 100 against 1 to you - that my "Zeus" will have an "A" for hip-result in future - you can take me by my public word here, you "Great Guru!"

And of course i also know that HD is not ONLY caused by genetics - may be you should read what i have posted here in the German wolfdog about 5 years before?

But yes , i´m sorry - you can not read German language.

Have a nice evening all !

[Silvester]

And as answer to "Rona" in her posting No 15.:

Originariamente inviata da Rona

Are you aware that your friend Carlos, selected Harmonia, the 'ugly' female WW 2006 with too long ears, too long tail, uncourages and irritable to be the mother of the male he bought from Daiva?

Yes, of course i am aware ! May be you and Daiva better should ask yourselfes why Carlos did NOT take this own male for breeding but made long expensive trip to Czechia for getting Amore Mio as father ??

I´m sure you will replie: Because he´s a newcomer and does not know about anything...

The opposite is correct : He made the best choice he could get - for the reasons i already have told before.

Good night to everyone.

[wolfin]

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

Yes, of course i am aware ! May be you and Daiva better should ask yourselfes why Carlos did NOT take his own male for breeding but made long expensive trip to Czechia for getting Amore Mio as father ??

I´m sure you will replie: Because he´s a newcomer and does not know about anything...

The opposite is correct : He made the best choice he could get - for the reasons i already have told before.

Good night to everyone.

Yes, I him say better used other male for new blood in Spain.
And used Itu for others female or daughter Emba when he have this same REOLUP like Emba.

[Rona]

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

May be you and Daiva better should ask yourselfes why Carlos did NOT take this own male for breeding but made long expensive trip to Czechia for getting Amore Mio as father ??

I´m sure you will replie: Because he´s a newcomer and does not know about anything...

Why don't you take my advice and think before you write???
On 03-01-2010, 15:31 I wrote to Carlos (post 36 in the original topic):

Carlos, your dogs are great, the pups are lovely and I'm sure with your approach (eg willingness to travel to matchings) and a bit more experience you'll become an excellent breeder!

So you were wrong again Travelling to matchings, especially with the first litter(s) only shows devotion on the part of the breeder and his care about the breed development.

Daiva is not my favourite breeder, but I'm not blind and see that Harmonia is a great dog. It seems a person who disagrees with you may only have ugly dogs!
Don't you see such approach is childish and immature and through your ignorance and blind fury you are only discrediting Carlos' kennel and destroying his dog's reputation as a future rep?

[Nebulosa]

Oh, so it was you who posted it really, in this case I corrected the quote name, because I would not believe in such nonsense.

Today is pretty easy you receive P1 with some judges, even if your dog have really short legs, open lips, long ears and so on, he will receive P1 as we can see in some results even by this database, I really dont care for bonitation results, but I need to agree that if it were done properlly, would be very interessing way of evaluation, really usefull.

You said your dog is correct, I already see genetic for shorth legs in the linebreeding that was done, but for some people the most important is short ears, clear eyes and nice head, maye its exmplaine why we can meet such horrible bodies and terrible movement in dogshows, I hope your dog will be correct, and not more one shorth legged wolfdog, as the majority of the exemplars which not reach 55.

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

And of course i also know that HD is not ONLY caused by genetics - may be you should read what i have posted here in the German wolfdog about 5 years before?

As I hope you also know that if the dog have perfect hips, independant of his treatment or feed he will have A or B hips, not more than it.
You have some B and C brothers, dont try to convince me that this D was "acquired".

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

But yes , i´m sorry - you can not read German language.

When its really needed google helps a lot, but it isn't as I have all information in my own lenguage, principally about hips and elbows displasy, but when I search for more uncommon genetic ill and I dont find properly information in portuguese, I can search in French, Spanish, Italian and English with perfection and its already solve the problem, I can add also a little bit of Polish thanks to Polish people and their patience with me , but I hope one day I will learn German also as I find his sound and write very nice.
But thanks for worrie about my lack of knowledge in German language.

I really hope your dog will be healty, but even healty if you will use in the breeding, you will need to take care when select a male.

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

And i say it again: About "Perfect dog" I have never spoken - only you .

So I should remind you what who wrote here.

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

The mating of this both parents of this litter are at the moment on of the best or just the best combination you can find in the whole breed, not only by hip- results but also by very low incest - quotient ...not to talk from other advantages more.

The best litter but not only by hips... when you wrote it I was sure you didn't knew about the brother of Bluebell.
P1... P1.. short ears, clear eyes and all of blabering I already quote.

As I was sure you didn't knew what does men " select a dog breed" but...

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

and P 3 NOT a P1 in bonitation- code , with two grandparents with HD- result "C" (!) can without any doubt not be compared with Amore Mio!

You see, I'm sure German people are very responsible with HD results and also with HD information, you really should get better informed.
I confirmed what I tough before.

[martiou07]

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

I´m betting at last 100 against 1 to you - that my "Zeus" will have an "A" for hip-result in future

hi,

i wish for you and for "ZEUS", but if you know the risks of the genetics so much you donot can be on that….

[martiou07]

As regards knowing the actual value a reproducer, it is necessary to wait before being able to express, on photograph it is true that I find Amore splendid, but nothing allows yet; to express on its real value standard, Harmonia has defects, like which dog (the perfect dog do not exist, besides mine of course ) nevertheless we can see his value and to see that this bitch put at the world pups very interesting… The titles are a thing very gratifiante for breeder and the owner but of nothing an index for the value reproducer…. ( is just more salesman )

[woland77]

Originariamente inviata da Silvester

And of course i also know that HD is not ONLY caused by genetics

HD, always, in any case, start from genetic heriatage of the dog (100%)
Development and severity of disease are governed by the same genetic haritage (10-30%), and by environmental influence (70-90%).

Lupus Ibericus litter is excelent for HD...
Similar litters with exclent result:
Arimminum "O", COR 26,56 have 4 dog's HD A, total 6 dog's
Arimmiunm "N" COR 21,72 have 4 dog's HD A, total 6 dog's
dei Navarri "A" COR 17,39 have 5 dog's HD A total 6 dog's
(i know the 5 dog's without result, are not dog's with bad result not published, are simply dog's without x-rays)

..this can not give 100% security, but on selection this litter can boast one of the most best range estimate on CZW..

..the brother Baschan can say all, or nothing, remember Bety and Colt Zeper..is most important to study the offspring, relationship, genetic similarity.

[z Peronówki]

Originariamente inviata da woland77

HD, always, in any case, start from genetic heriatage of the dog (100%)
Development and severity of disease are governed by the same genetic haritage (10-30%), and by environmental influence (70-90%).

Lupus Ibericus litter is excelent for HD...
Similar litters with exclent result:
Arimminum "O", COR 26,56 have 4 dog's HD A, total 6 dog's
Arimmiunm "N" COR 21,72 have 4 dog's HD A, total 6 dog's
dei Navarri "A" COR 17,39 have 5 dog's HD A total 6 dog's
(i know the 5 dog's without result, are not dog's with bad result not published, are simply dog's without x-rays)

..this can not give 100% security, but on selection this litter can boast one of the most best range estimate on CZW..

Hartl was telling about it already a long time before.... And it is very good visible when you follow the lines in the database - in some lines there are only about 50% with dogs wich get HD-A results but there are also lines with 80% or even more dogs with HD-A. It is HUGE difference. But short:

HD-free parents and "HD-free lines" do not GARANTY that there will be no puppies with HD. BUT there ARE lines which "bring HD" and lines which are (almost) "HD-free" (with a very small % of HD-dogs).

[Erwan Grey]

Originariamente inviata da Rona

I don't know the dog, but I know the parents and belive me, they are great! Both Cheitan and Harmonia have something, that for me (a non-breeder) is most important in a dog: fantastic characters and working drive. Plus this 'something', sometimes called "charisma", of which you can say nothing if you haven't seen them interacting with humans and other dogs...

YESSSS!!!!! is this items very very "important"

People know that some behavioral characters are transmitted genetically? because that is also very important.

A dog can be beautiful but if a dog is fearful in the ring ....

And in this race is very important this detail