Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS

Attention, initialement je n'ai jamais affirmé que c'était un mâle ! j'ai même indiqué que j'avais cru comprendre que c'était une femelle stérilisée de C. Keiser....
C'est à la suite de la naissance des chiots roux, quand j'ai prévenu M. Capiez Franck, par téléphone par rapport à Volos (entre autre) qu'il m'a affirmé qu'il s'agissait d'un mâle (castré d'après lui)

Suite .....Après de longues recherches, j'ai retrouvé une photo où on apperçoit le chien (ou la chienne ?) en question en arrière plan de Sibir ....(photo datée de mai 2007, date à laquelle j'ai été le chercher)
Je ne parviens pas (comme déjà expliqué dans un précédent post à déterminer si c'est un mâle ou une femelle) mais c'est bien un saarloos roux !


Continuing.. After a long search I've found an photo where appear the dog in question at the background, behind of Sibir. ( the date of the photo is May. 2007).
I cant (as already explained in the previous post, to determine if that's an male or a female) but it's an red Saarloos.

[elf]

I hesitated to put pictures, but lets go:

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by elf

I hesitated to put pictures, but lets go:

knew I was not dreaming and that I had seen red Saarloos, from this breeder, I will not pretend to yesteryear, it is the same as your pictures (or even year) because I simply do not know ....

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS

knew I was not dreaming and that I had seen red Saarloos, from this breeder, I will not pretend to yesteryear, it is the same as your pictures (or even year) because I simply do not know ....

No Lorry you were not dreaming! I am sorry I did not notice your question before...
I did bring this SWH male to Edit...

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

How did the red color come to be in the Saarloos? Aren't they also crosses of GSD and wolf?

The Saarloos breed is indead just like the Csw based on crossings between Wolf x GSD!
And since the start of the breed red and white pups did appear. Only with the red ones was also breeded. (in Holland this color red is mentionent as “forrest brown” )
And never were made official mixes with nordic breeds!

But maybe (like in all kind of breeds!!) some breeders did cheat and did make “crossings” and did registrate like Saarloos.
SWH colors accepted by breed standard are: Light till dark wolfgrey, light till dark brown (forrest brown), light creme till white . Wolfgrey with black nose, forrest brown with liver color nose, white both color noses are accepted but liver color is to prefer.

A lot about colors of GSD you can find HERE (3 pages and also photo’s)
The saarloos database you can find HERE

[mijke]

The owner of one of the offspring of Fallko Kollarov dvor is willing to cooperate with DNA research Just contact me in private for more info.

[Nebulosa]

Before I was thinking that F Crying wolf could have double parentage, now that we have more informations about a possible accident coming from an forest-brown Saarloos things changed a bit for me.
Dvorak, the brown Saarloos born in 2003 (according to the ShW stats), that turns impossible to F litter have double parentage.
We have S, V and Y Crying Wolf doing weird puppies, S born at 2005, V at 2006 and Y at 2007, all possible years to an accident happen if this Saarloos was there all this time, we could be sure that he was there in 2007 due the photo done by Lorry (???).

If it is so, then would be easier to take samples of these litters (specifically the pups which are showing this problem) and compare with the blood of Dvorak itself.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

If it is so, then would be easier to take samples of these litters (...) and compare with the blood of Dvorak itself.

Probably easier said than done, unless Edit agrees to cooperate.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by elf

I hesitated to put pictures, but lets go:

I am sorry for the off topic, but I will save these photos and show them to my dog whenever she feels her life with me is difficult....

[jmvdwiel]

What I can find on my search on the internet is that a brown/red color can happen in GSD. Some nice pictures and an easy reading about the genetics you can find in the links below.

http://www.bluedogs.8m.com/fawn.html
http://www.bluedogs.8m.com/7week.html
http://www.bluedogs.8m.com/info.htmlhttp://www.bluedogs.8m.com/info.html

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel

What I can find on my search on the internet is that a brown/red color can happen in GSD. Some nice pictures and an easy reading about the genetics you can find in the links below.

http://www.bluedogs.8m.com/fawn.html
http://www.bluedogs.8m.com/7week.html
http://www.bluedogs.8m.com/info.htmlhttp://www.bluedogs.8m.com/info.html

one thing this are USA GSD not Germany GSD. I special speak with ours breeder about this posibility and they say - not know this type born in pure German blood GSD. USA have others type and who know who blood are in this dogs. Germany GSD have very strong testing and .. strange this type mutation in european GSD litter not hapend. Question why

p.s. I speak about pure GSD who have VS pedigree.
p.s.
http://hauspharao.com/colorgenetics/diagHQ.jpg
this are pure GSD colors. other genetical in pure GSD not can be. but ... in example about atypical color are only USA dogs photo- realy question why this example not can find in european pure GSD with SV pedigree.

[jmvdwiel]

We also know that not all breeders are always honest about 'not normal' pups, and sometimes they just disappear as if they never were born... what you can't see in my dogs it's simple not there.

Originally Posted by wolfin

one thing this are USA GSD not Germany GSD. I special speak with ours breeder about this posibility and they say - not know this type born in pure German blood GSD. USA have others type and who know who blood are in this dogs. Germany GSD have very strong testing and .. strange this type mutation in european GSD litter not hapend. Question why

p.s. I speak about pure GSD who have VS pedigree.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel

We also know that not all breeders are always honest about 'not normal' pups, and sometimes they just disappear as if they never were born... what you can't see in my dogs it's simple not there.

sory but this dog in photo and others example not are typical GSD with pure SV pedigree.
like this brown CSV, why mutation have and sarlos anatomy? not to strange?
p.s. I speak with this breeder who know all " who hapened in breed" and say all who is who. and I believe in they info, when know they are good breeder who realy love breed and make all for breed goodnes. in this case I not believe in falsh info about GSD with SV pedigree

[lupis]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

I am sorry for the off topic, but I will save these photos and show them to my dog whenever she feels her life with me is difficult....

You think is bad photo. you must see video: http://tv2.hu/aktiv/video/kutya-pozb...osebb-modellek is from cryinf wolf kennel puppy mill. see cages. horrible. every case with many wolfdogs. in database i see 42 dogs in crying wolf but on video i count much more. and many other breeds.
i very much sorry for dogs from this kennel. in europe must be no place for such terrible places. it is must worst than dog shelter i see in my life. i know tghe woman run her dirty bussines but i can not imagine that people buy puppies in such places. it is cruel to animals

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS

Suite .....Après de longues recherches, j'ai retrouvé une photo où on apperçoit le chien (ou la chienne ?) en question en arrière plan de Sibir ....(photo datée de mai 2007, date à laquelle j'ai été le chercher)
Je ne parviens pas (comme déjà expliqué dans un précédent post à déterminer si c'est un mâle ou une femelle) mais c'est bien un saarloos roux !

It's a male, you can see the testicle at the photo you posted.

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

It's a male, you can see the testicle at the photo you posted.

Moi je ne vois pas assez nettement des testicules pour affirmer celà........je préfère donc rester prudente....

I cant see quite clearly the testicles in this photo to say this, then I prefer remain cautious.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS

Moi je ne vois pas assez nettement des testicules pour affirmer celà........je préfère donc rester prudente....

I think this photo can solve our problem.

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

I think this photo can solve our problem.

For me a photograph is not enough .... it may be a track and it is in any case for evidence that I have not told anything, when I said that I had seen a Saarloos ..... but otherwise, only the results of a DNA test to be conclusive evidence to my eyes .....
or by comparing the DNA of Rambo, Sibir and Thalia, who was sent to Daniela
or with the help of people who have dogs, whose DNA can also be compared ....
is of course, with the consent of the owner Galiba (if it were to change his mind)
or concrete information from the breeder ....,

I do not know what basis of scientific research will be preferred and will get replies unassailable, but one thing is certain, I do no fies a photo to pretend that I have found irrefutable proof

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS

but one thing is certain, I do no fies a photo to pretend that I have found irrefutable proof

Nor me, I only told that we can see what should be an testicle at that photo, and that's why I guessed it's a male.
Even if what looks like a testicle could be several other things.
But well, Elf already found even the datas of the dog in question.

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

I think this photo can solve our problem.

En effet, sur cette photo grossie, je vois mieux .....

[elf]

This Saarloos is Dvorak de Louba Tar. Not sterilized at the time of the picture as you can see here (had offspring in dec 2007):

https://www.saarloosuvvlcak-miraja.cz/products/vrh-a/
http://saarloos.webnode.cz/products/...aarloosu-v-cr/