Sending a dog to a different continent - Guide for breeders

[saschia]

Thank you Paula for the tips to breeders, which are by the way good for prospective buyers too, to see if the breeder they contacted is responsible or just wants to get rid of the pups.

But I don't completely agree with you on one toic - you write it is not good to import pups from line that already exists. Of course it is better to increase the number of lines, but on the other hand, you don't want to have only one stud in each line. Even in the lines you should have some genetic variability. An when you import puppy you never know what will happen - the one that comes might for example miss a tooth, have bad character, etc., so it is better to have possibilities. No material is truly lost if used with great care, in the opposite, using a stud which is not of a good quality and not importing other pup instead from the same line can cause more damage for the breed, don't you think?

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by saschia

Thank you Paula for the tips to breeders, which are by the way good for prospective buyers too, to see if the breeder they contacted is responsible or just wants to get rid of the pups.

But I don't completely agree with you on one toic - you write it is not good to import pups from line that already exists. Of course it is better to increase the number of lines, but on the other hand, you don't want to have only one stud in each line. Even in the lines you should have some genetic variability. An when you import puppy you never know what will happen - the one that comes might for example miss a tooth, have bad character, etc., so it is better to have possibilities. No material is truly lost if used with great care, in the opposite, using a stud which is not of a good quality and not importing other pup instead from the same line can cause more damage for the breed, don't you think?

we have similar situation like Paula about import- when we buy a puppy from others country - Slovakia example we buy one from one litter and next from others. WHEN like you say puppy not go to breed we later buy new dog with this blood, but not import in this same time this same bloods or parents pupps from this same liters, when this not important to much have 2-3 puppy with this same blood in this same time. and we have easy situation only 1200 km to SK. no waters like Paula

see in Russia they have about 40 CSV ( I not member good ) but blood line ... are two or 3 only when are breeders who send all puppy from this same litters ( example 5 females from this same litters who have in this time), - about who good genetic we can speak in this time, when not are dogs who can go to breeding when are sister- brother and this same blood. I think about this better say Morian

[saschia]

yes, I agree that it is not good to have most animals in one line. But that doesn't mean that import of puppy of line which is already there is always a waste. I didn't mean to contradict.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by saschia

yes, I agree that it is not good to have most animals in one line. But that doesn't mean that import of puppy of line which is already there is always a waste. I didn't mean to contradict.

aha when old line dogs you mas "hunting" when very smal breeders have this and hard becam puppy from this ( like litter with Arek ). Others is easer to buy when are moore litters with this same blood.

[Morian]

Originally Posted by wolfin

see in Russia they have about 40 CSV ( I not member good ) but blood line ... are two or 3 only when are breeders who send all puppy from this same litters ( example 5 females from this same litters who have in this time), - about who good genetic we can speak in this time, when not are dogs who can go to breeding when are sister- brother and this same blood. I think about this better say Morian

this problem is not in the number of puppies sold or their lines, if they were sold as pets - why not? but when breeder x sells 7 pups at once, 4 from them are in the same kennel (non fci by the way with very questionable reputation), 1 pup to one more kennel which owns also non fci wolfdogs, which is a puppy (and kitten...) mill... i don't want to tell about these two kennels, but i'm sure and many people reading russian forum can confirm that breeder x had info or could have it before selling pups. by the way, breeder x had really tragic expirience with selling pups to russia some years ago. but money can force to forget it all, yes and this is only one example, there are many more.
i can only say that european breeders must sign strict contracts with russians which are going to breed csv here - the contract should oblige them to have hd and ed evaluation, dm tests, bonitaion etc. we have no club here, somebody must take care, this is a matter of conscience in the face of the breed we all love and take care of.
we found a way to improve this situation here, but we need the same attitude and support from the european breeders.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Morian

this problem is not in the number of puppies sold or their lines, if they were sold as pets - why not? .

sale like pets to Russia??? not imposible

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Morian

i can only say that european breeders must sign strict contracts with russians which are going to breed csv here - the contract should oblige them to have hd and ed evaluation, dm tests, bonitaion etc. we have no club here, somebody must take care, this is a matter of conscience in the face of the breed we all love and take care of.
we found a way to improve this situation here, but we need the same attitude and support from the european breeders.

But do these contracts work internationally? Even in our own country we sign contracts, that are nearly meaningless For example, usually it is written, what does buyer have to fulfill before breeding a dog, but it does not speak about what will happend if he won't

Do we have any lawyers here?

[Morian]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Do we have any lawyers here?

surely this is not me, so i can't answer your question but i think it's possible to do a contract which would work internationally

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

But do these contracts work internationally?

Nop they do not work internationally and almost not even nationally

The only thing that works are $$$ Let the buyer pay for a HD and ED x-ray when they pick up the puppy and than later pay the money back when they have official results on there dog at 18-24 month of age

Very best regards / Mikael

[Morian]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Nop they do not work internationally and almost not even nationally

at us if we sign such contract - it will work. i mean within russia.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Morian

at us if we sign such contract - it will work. i mean within russia.

OK, but what happens if they deside to breed the dog anyway ???

What can you do ???

Best regards / Mikael

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by saschia

But I don't completely agree with you on one toic - you write it is not good to import pups from line that already exists. Of course it is better to increase the number of lines, but on the other hand, you don't want to have only one stud in each line. Even in the lines you should have some genetic variability. An when you import puppy you never know what will happen - the one that comes might for example miss a tooth, have bad character, etc., so it is better to have possibilities. No material is truly lost if used with great care, in the opposite, using a stud which is not of a good quality and not importing other pup instead from the same line can cause more damage for the breed, don't you think?

That's why I wrote it:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

then is not interesting for the breeding of the country in questions to have several pups imported from the same kennel with the same bloodline if not the same parents! For exemple, why we (brazilians) would import pup's from close relatives of Jezebeth? Or USA import pup's from a close relatives of Anthea?! it's only an exemple

One exemple, Ł z peronówki was a very interesting litter, linebreeding in D Kollarov Dvor, but not for me, as it comes by J. z Peronówki with Bonie z Mrazive Ticho, a female I really like, but which I dont wish to make linebreeding, her blood I have by Oskar.

I try to avoid dogs with A Reolup, as it is what we could already call a common blood at the breed itself, I have this blood here by several dogs, but I will not give up to bring more of such blood together with interesting diferent bloods or important lines, as it's not hard to happen, less A.Reolup & similares we have here "for nothing", better as it will let place for "interesting dogs with this blood as well", and that's also why Ł z Peronowki entered as "non interesting litter" FOR ME.

I took Ł z Peronówki as exemple because I know the breeder is open minded also as the breeders who have these dogs, and that they will not get angry or say Im doing "bad advertizement of their blood because im jealous" and "because their dogs are perfect, PERFECT for everyone and for every country" (Ie. they are not blind), but I can make a list of the last years with "interesting litters which wasnt interesting for me" because of this.

Lets see another exemple, A Pura Gioia litter, it was an very interesting litter for us as well, no A Reolup in it, with Baron Spod Dumbiera (which we have by jezebeth, but he came in a quite different connection) as Iran Zemplinska Oblast ( which we have the dog itself here, but also cames in a quite different connection and also at the back of the pedigree) and much more bloods I would be glad to have more to use in linebreeding.
Then, these different conections woudl add something new to our breeding, even is we talk only about the linebreeding possibilities.

It's when we are talking about rational and serious breeders, which will sell one pup of the litter to someone, not about the "Whole sellers" which are able to sell 3 or 4 pups, even the whole litter to the same owner.