Demoniak de la Louve Blanche

[Morian]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.

eee? do you still talk about czechoslovakian wolfdog, fci standard nr. 322
"UTILIZATION : Working Dog. CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. : Group 1 Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs. Section 1 Sheepdogs. With working trial."??? ipo or any other exam means that the dog is controlable and trained, not agressive. stop to mix cutlets and flies please

[furyos]

Waouuuu so much Bad words in this topic ...really you have a real big problem ... For information in France we have an exam to have the pedigree and breed with our dogs ..and the juge accept or not only if the dog is in the standard ...if for you have a wolfish type is not the standard shame on you because it s the standard ... Nothing else are in my blood line than what is wrote on pedigree ... Sorry if you don t have same result with your marriage .... Margo never use same blood and never crying wolf the most wolfish dog in Europe with passo del lupo ...after it s your choie and don t blâme if in few tzars your smaller smaller dog arrive ... Use allways sale Male Like eligo don t give a good example for you Margo who want give best chance to our breed ... Money money money ... Perhaps you can cross him with poodle ... I can give you some French kennel adress ... ) best regards drama forum ... For your information if few people like to be manipulate like lamb in this marketing PERON ....not me ... !!!" God save this queen " but not me !!! Best of the best for you ... Frank capiez ... (big honor to be so important in few moment in tchecoslovaquian wolfdog world )

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by furyos

Waouuuu so much Bad words in this topic ...really you have a real big problem ...

No, WE don´t have.

Frank, you told us your father is a breeder of siberian huskies since 1970 (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/newrepl...wreply&p=76539 ), and most of your dogs are officially bred by your father.

You yourself love dogs from PDL, CW and de Louba tar (or should I say Sun gifu - grin).

So much facilities, Frank .... loooooooooool

And ... attack is not always the best defense

Cheers
Angelika

[hanninadina]

Margo and Daiva, it was three years ago or something, it was Geriyon, Miguel knew this dog very well because he was in contact with Davia during that time. He showed me the dog.

So I am very sorry, in the end, the discussion is in the end there, where it was every time it is discussed. I do not know why no vet and a official from french csw club goes to Sophie and take some gene material and make a gene test?

Although Doz and Demoinak look almost like siblings, I noticed of course that the off spring of Demoniak has big ears - ears like Saarloos! And from temperament he is more like Saarloos and not csw. So I think, I stay with my opinion that he is a son of Skog! Jos, only wanted to make some trouble and was jealous because the american wolfdogforum people wrote that I seem to have more knowledge about some dogs. That is why he hit out his statement, that HE knows better who the father of Demoniak is.

And because of the big ears, Margo, I can not believe that there is american wolfdog in him.

By the way, can you copy the pictures from 2005, which you did linked in the wayback machine archive? Because I can not open it, but I would really like to watch the pictures of the wolves or american wolfdogs, which where shown when Franky announced his first or second litter from Merlin and Ossa Crying Wolf. You can download it and post it here. Would be great and would rather leads to more understanding that Franky is a liar.

Thanks
Christian

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Margo and Daiva, it was three years ago or something, it was Geriyon, Miguel knew this dog very well because he was in contact with Davia during that time. He showed me the dog.

So I am very sorry, in the end, the discussion is in the end there, where it was every time it is discussed. I do not know why no vet and a official from french csw club goes to Sophie and take some gene material and make a gene test?

Although Doz and Demoinak look almost like siblings, I noticed of course that the off spring of Demoniak has big ears - ears like Saarloos! And from temperament he is more like Saarloos and not csw. So I think, I stay with my opinion that he is a son of Skog! Jos, only wanted to make some trouble and was jealous because the american wolfdogforum people wrote that I seem to have more knowledge about some dogs. That is why he hit out his statement, that HE knows better who the father of Demoniak is.


Thanks
Christian

Just as a little reminder:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Jos de Bruin, owner and breeder of Saarloos Wolfdogs living in germany brought some light in the discussion wheather Demoniak is a mix with american or europaen wolf. He wrote in american wolfdog forum:


I remember that he bought in 2006 or 2007 this CSW/Wolf-Mix in Berlin for 500,--Euros. Because he had trouble with his neighbours and the courts he could not keep this dog. So it could be, what he wrote. But isn´t it ironicle that a Saarloos breeder put his hands in the csw breed? Ok, he says, he is not guilty... lol.[/color][/font]

It was you that started the discussion here.
You want to leave it without an excuse to Jos and a new little kick to the direction of Margo and Daiva

Do you really think people here have such short memories? Or have you already forgotten yourself?

Ina

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Margo and Daiva, it was three years ago or something, it was Geriyon, Miguel knew this dog very well because he was in contact with Davia during that time. He showed me the dog.

Then he made mistake... Geryon was never shy. On the contrary He was and is a MACHO. For some people too big macho....

The only dog from this litter which can be described as "not self-confident" is Glasya. But it seem to be caused by missing socialization and the conditions where she is living (a pack of dogs).

The rest of the litter was possible to see in Pozna. Still If you visit us you will have the possiblity to see Garuda, Gibil, Gwaihir and maybe even Geryon (Gothmog is living in Denmark - but his character is simply PERFERCT ). You will have the possiblity to convince yourself that you never can describe those animals as "shy".

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Morian

eee? do you still talk about czechoslovakian wolfdog, fci standard nr. 322
"UTILIZATION : Working Dog. CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. : Group 1 Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs. Section 1 Sheepdogs. With working trial."??? ipo or any other exam means that the dog is controlable and trained, not agressive. stop to mix cutlets and flies please

Morian you will find out that the kind of people that want petwolfdogs of beautifull wolfish look simply don´t understand what working abilities mean. For them working ability is there when you can teach the dog to sit for a treat. For people that work dogs it is the stamina to proceed the trained work under all cicurmstances. Nothing to do with aggressiveness but with the will to work and the ability to ignore disturbing surroundings and of course endurance in concentration.
But working dogs need owners to be in charge and funktion as a pack leader, that means they also ask abilities of their owners, to have a show dog is much easier and less challenging.

There is a thread on the German forum "Vorfälle bei der Nacht der Wölfe" that shows very nicely the way of thinking in both groups. Christian with a panicking AWH met people with CSW. Both kind of dogs showed typical canine behaviour and typical "breed"behaviour, one owner wasn´t in charge...

The Briard-example is a very good one. Briards have been working dogs but also had the bad luck to have nice hair. The show Briard lost it´s abilitiy to do the work this breed was created for. We have Border Collies without herding instinct, hunting dogs without hunting abilities, sled dogs without the confirmation needed for pulling sleds
And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.
We have so many breeds inclusive AWHs (that are no real breed) that are only bred for looks and showing, it makes me very sad that we loose one breed afther the other to this kind of people looking for another exotic kind of dog to show of, with no respet for the intention of the founders and absolutely no respect for the animal itself.

Ina

[Morian]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Morian you will find out that the kind of people that want petwolfdogs of beautifull wolfish look simply don´t understand what working abilities mean.

first. i don't mean working abilities, the standard does. and second. ability doesn't mean diploma. dog must be able to work, but nobody is obliged to. by the way. not too long ago i heard something very funny from some breeder. he told "we breed WOLVES, which must look wolfish, must not bark and work like gsd" i wonder why do they need csv for this, the breed created for "upgrade" of working abilities, endurance and health of gsd. i don't want to say that csv must work like gsd and this is the main point, i like wolfish csv too, but we must remember about the standard which takes into account both things - and temperament/working abilities, either wolfish look. it clearly describes typical temperament and exterior both.

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.

this is really sad, i'm agree with you. many people are "purchased" by exotic look, they don't know and don't care about other sides of the breed which are not worse than just wolfish look. now i have pups and 99% of people name exterior only when i ask why csv. but i still don't think that working dog must look ugly but we have what we have. some people care, some don't. i wonder about another thing: why dogs which don't not meet the standard are still called csv, used in breeding etc. i don't mean demoniak or other mixes only, i mean all dogs which "don't fit" - shy dogs, "plant-alike" dogs, dogs with serious discrepancy in the exterior etc. but this is a rhetorical question, oh yes.

[koboldine]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

The Briard-example is a very good one. Briards have been working dogs but also had the bad luck to have nice hair. The show Briard lost it´s abilitiy to do the work this breed was created for. We have Border Collies without herding instinct, hunting dogs without hunting abilities, sled dogs without the confirmation needed for pulling sleds
And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.
We have so many breeds inclusive AWHs (that are no real breed) that are only bred for looks and showing, it makes me very sad that we loose one breed afther the other to this kind of people looking for another exotic kind of dog to show of, with no respet for the intention of the founders and absolutely no respect for the animal itself.

This is exactly the answer to the question I´ve asked three years ago: Where will our breed go...

I don´t think this battle is lost already, there are many people who want to work with their dogs and who need dogs to be trainable and able to endure, to concentrate...

I´d rather work with a workaholic than with a couch-potatoe...

Koboldine

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by koboldine

This is exactly the answer to the question I´ve asked three years ago: Where will our breed go...

I don´t think this battle is lost already, there are many people who want to work with their dogs and who need dogs to be trainable and able to endure, to concentrate...

I´d rather work with a workaholic than with a couch-potatoe...

Koboldine

yep. I tell you about this who are in Lithuania when I know hystory and situation in my country. People not want a NICE wolfyyyy, they want a CSW with good behavior, when almost 90 % CSW live in city in a flat, mas day per day have contact with transport, people, others animals, mas have good obedience, be social WITHOUT shy, mas and defence theys master if need this when owner back to home in night. They want a THIS CSW from what this breed and born and grown- working - house- family member, not nice plant in garden only.