de Louba Tar kennel

[*Satu]

I don´t see any sick dogs.
Some dog are little light conditions but not too thin.But i can´t say anything only about pics.

I have seen Mrs Keizer ones whit his saarloos and these dog was look nice and healty.

Pacino do you have summertime pics?

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by *Satu

I don´t see any sick dogs.
Some dog are little light conditions but not too thin.But i can´t say anything only about pics.

I have seen Mrs Keizer ones whit his saarloos and these dog was look nice and healty.

Pacino do you have summertime pics?

hi, have you looked at the photos??? you state {some dogs are light conditions} no the dogs are clearly under norished and very very thin, showing the complete out line of the full rib cadge,, have i any summer photos ? yes i have the only difference is the dogs are dry but still very thin,, the ardense in France is very cold and wet in the winter, so for at least 3-4 months of the year the dogs are wet and cold, they live outside and many of the dogs are out in compounds all night WITH NO SHELTER,, the czechs and saarloos are hardy dogs as we know and can with stand certain conditions, but a thin dog out all night in the rain and cold will not do very well, do you know that the condition of a dog in good health and of good weight will with stand the cold and wet conditions better than that of a thin and under norished dog ? well you do now,, for it is a true fact, no dog at all either fit and healthy or very thin should have to live in these conditions, i am very glad you are not the dog warden in my area ///// regards paul

[*Satu]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi, have you looked at the photos??? you state {some dogs are light conditions} no the dogs are clearly under norished and very very thin, showing the complete out line of the full rib cadge,, have i any summer photos ? yes i have the only difference is the dogs are dry but still very thin,, the ardense in France is very cold and wet in the winter, so for at least 3-4 months of the year the dogs are wet and cold, they live outside and many of the dogs are out in compounds all night WITH NO SHELTER,, the czechs and saarloos are hardy dogs as we know and can with stand certain conditions, but a thin dog out all night in the rain and cold will not do very well, do you know that the condition of a dog in good health and of good weight will with stand the cold and wet conditions better than that of a thin and under norished dog ? well you do now,, for it is a true fact, no dog at all either fit and healthy or very thin should have to live in these conditions, i am very glad you are not the dog warden in my area ///// regards paul

I saw Keizer whit her dogs in EW-06 dogshow.These dogs were good condition.

How many times you have visit big kennels in Europe?

Yes. maybe there is problems but sometimes pics don´t tell trues. Yes i see so wet kennel and dogs and i don´t know what kind is conditions of dogs.

How many dogs there is so thin? You don´t tell that...

As you went to Louba Tar and there 49 dogs was these dogs in bad condition already? when this pictures taken?
You worked 18month there how many times vet or animalrescue people wist there?
Are this dogs in pictures worstest in this kennel?


My dogs lives inside house they sleep in my bed they eat everyday twice times and they can run and play many hours a day.
They don´t live outside kennel cage so you don´t have right to say anything about my dogs and my profecionity.

I working whit animals everyday (over 16years) and if i see something what you have sow i do something immediately.

Regards Satu.. how don´t know anything about dogs or animals

[nanouk]

@ paul

I am very curious as to why you come out with these pictures now (you already gave them to the NVSWH close to 2 yrs ago ). You seem so confident about having a solid case.. Why risk your solid case for a little bit of exposure and stirring public opinion, why not strike hard after you have won the case?!

Furthermore i still remember your old website, where you showed a completely different image of the kennels, and i remember your beautifull pictures of the dogs at the agility place and of fe Skog in his kennel...
At what time where you stirring and misleading public opinion?
I still recall your wife at the show in luxemburg, and our conversation at that time.. could my english be so bad that i took her dissapointment in the kennel for plain out positivism and a wish to work together with Louba Tar kennels?

Is it why the situation was so appalling at the kennels that it took you 18 months to figure that out, is that why you and Corrie introduced the first TWH at crufts and , correct me if i am wrong, according to show results you co- owned a dog with her, and she showed also your great japanse for you , even after you have left the kennel?

I do not feel the need to defend CA Keizer, i have been there myself on several occasions, i do not depend on hearsay and images to make my opinion. Wished more people would do that!
But am curious to why your change of opinion

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by nanouk

@ paul

I am very curious as to why you come out with these pictures now (you already gave them to the NVSWH close to 2 yrs ago ). You seem so confident about having a solid case.. Why risk your solid case for a little bit of exposure and stirring public opinion, why not strike hard after you have won the case?!

Furthermore i still remember your old website, where you showed a completely different image of the kennels, and i remember your beautifull pictures of the dogs at the agility place and of fe Skog in his kennel...
At what time where you stirring and misleading public opinion?
I still recall your wife at the show in luxemburg, and our conversation at that time.. could my english be so bad that i took her dissapointment in the kennel for plain out positivism and a wish to work together with Louba Tar kennels?

Is it why the situation was so appalling at the kennels that it took you 18 months to figure that out, is that why you and Corrie introduced the first TWH at crufts and , correct me if i am wrong, according to show results you co- owned a dog with her, and she showed also your great japanse for you , even after you have left the kennel?

I do not feel the need to defend CA Keizer, i have been there myself on several occasions, i do not depend on hearsay and images to make my opinion. Wished more people would do that!
But am curious to why your change of opinion

hi i take no risk at all, all is complete, i only wait on word foe date, yes when i went to live in france there were 49 dogs and conditions were good, we planned to open wolfpark also, with friends from holland , as time went on, the numbers of dogs grew, we had to work very long days, we were over run with dogs, we had dogs living everywhere, dogs lived in pens in the garden, they had no kennels and slept under the trees, the dogs were feed every day, but dogs get thin and loose weight because they have no shelter, even the hardest of dogs with the thickest of coats will soon get cold. and worst of all is lying on wet and damp soil, many times we tried to leave but felt so much for the dogs we stayed , at the end we could cope no more , we wanted so much to phone the authorities but were very affraid as the french authorities do not hang about, mrs Keizer kennels are for 49 dogs only not 119, you can just imagine how the authorities would of sorted this out, they put down over 40 dogs the year before as a breeder failed to comply with regulations, we asked for building material, we asked to cut down in dogs, at the end we had friends visit when corrie was out, we had our friends call as we needed help, we wanted people to tell us it was best to leave, it was very hard to walk away but with help we decided what was best for the dogs, so yes the first lot of months were great, and we loved every minute, you have been to the kennels, have you been down to the cellar? have you been in maternity unit? no you have not for no one gets there,,,, did you visit when there was 119 dogs at the kennels? by the way i took all my great japanese dogs with me, corrie did breed the bitch that was in co ownership with me after i left and she did fordge my name to register the pups,,,,, ther are over 150 photos of the dogs and conditions at the kennels only 24 were supplied by me, other photos were taken by friends of corries who visited and then passed on to others with critical remarks, but still no one reports it , i sent a post to this site regarding the first litter of czechs born in luxemburg by Gabrial lyns, stating all the information on this litter was incorrect, it was not put on the site, even though i have evidense which proves other wise, i sent email to margo, maybe she will publish it onn site if you ask,,regards paul

[Liesbeth]

Hi,

I think that many people from all over the world are reading this topic and they try to follow the evolution of this all. Many of them never heard of 'de Louba Tar' before, but most of them already heard other rumours about this kennel. Not only about (too) many dogs, bad conditions, skinny dogs, dogs looking more like jackals, no bonitation, no HD results, problems with pedigrees, crossings of Saarloos and Czech, etc, etc. Some of these are maybe just rumours, but most of them are true. I know people who have a dog of this kennel and they still haven't got a pedigree of their dog. To give only one example. Why are there problems with pedigrees? Strange things happen at 'the Louba Tar'.
I never met C. Keizer personally, but I can believe she's intelligent and ok, maybe she knows a lot about dogs. But why doesn't she put the theories in her mind into practice? Her dogs are not according to the standard. She probably knows enough about genetics to fix this problem.
You can talk and discuss endlessly about this subject. And it's easy to talk about where other people are making mistakes. But de Louba Tar is probably not the only kennel where things go wrong. But I'm glad that some people make these things public. Not so we can all critisize those breeders, but we can try to learn from them. It's not our task to judge other people. But it's good to know some things about other people, to be informed. What you do with this information, is your own choice.
Of topic, but I think we should coöperate more as breeders and active wolfdog owners. But because we're all afraid to be judged by others, we're scared talk about negative things that are going on in our own kennel. A breeder who would talk open about a genetic disease found in one of his dogs (which he or she uses to breed with), would be judged in the negative way. Why? Dogs with genetic diseases exist. It's not a shame to have a dog with for example HD E. But talk about it and try to find out together where this problem comes from. Maybe it's only because of an accident as a puppy, maybe there's a problem in his bloodline or a certain combination that causes this problem to become worse... But we all keep our mouths shut about our own problems . Together we could make a difference for the breed, not if we keep working on our own. But like I said, of topic.
Many people don't dare to give their comments on this topic, because they want to 'stay friends' with everyone and they don't discuss this publicly. I must say I don't want to judge anyone, not even C. Keizer, but I'm glad that some people have the *** to share this kind of information with others.

Greetings,

Liesbeth

[Wolfsirius]

"we should cooperate more as breeders and active wolfdog owners"

That is more than true. WE REALLY SHOULD. And not only because of healthyness, but also because unsuitable / untrustable future puppybuyers. Every time, if i do not sell a pup to someone, i have a reason for it. I do not make litters for keeping all pups by myself, or i do not sell my pups in ads (public) if i want keep all pups by me at home.
But there is always someone who will sell pup, sooner or later.
It feels like my work and selection is nothing.
Is it so, that as pups will go abroad, problems will go abroad as well?
Long distance = no problems?

Still, i must say, that there is TOO MANY unsuitable owners for wolfdogs. Breeders should co-operate and listen each others as they are selling pups. I think, nobody wants problematic dogs in own country.
(because wrong owners)
Even, there is lot of differences between countries, but for example nordic countries are very strict, and we do not need problematic owners / dogs in Nordic countries.

-Suski

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Wolfsirius

Still, i must say, that there is TOO MANY unsuitable owners for wolfdogs. Breeders should co-operate and listen each others as they are selling pups. I think, nobody wants problematic dogs in own country.
(because wrong owners)
Even, there is lot of differences between countries, but for example nordic countries are very strict, and we do not need problematic owners / dogs in Nordic countries.

-Suski

Suski, you are right (though this theme is a bit off-topic). However, you and Liesbeth speak about breeders. But you have to keep in mind, that there are people among us, who call themselves breeders, yet in fact they are simply puppy producers, who do not care, to who they will sell their puppy, as long as they make money.
As long as these puppy producers will sell their pups to anyone who is ready to pay (and they of course advertise also here, on this site), there will always be unsuitable CSW owners, as well as later unwanted CSW dogs, CSW dogs in rescues or even euthanised.