wolf percentage

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Rona

To obtain such hypothetical dissapearance of wolf genes you'd need to breed CSV with ordinary dogs.... So carry on: 50/50, 25/75, 12,5/87,%, 6,25/93,25 ... etc. Pure maths, isn't it?

Sorry, I made a mistake. The highest wolf genes amount in CSV is around 30%, so you need to start from 30/70

[Hanka]

I think, wolfdogs have not over 30%.

[Angelika]

simple question - simple answer:
a csw with 32 % who is mated with a csw having 28 % do have pups 32 % + 28 % = 60 % : 2 = 30 %.
If this "child" of 30 % will be mated with another csw of 34 % = 64 % : 2 = 32 %.

So again you will never reach zero.

cheers
Angelika

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Angelika

simple question - simple answer:
a csw with 32 % who is mated with a csw having 28 % do have pups 32 % + 28 % = 60 % : 2 = 30 %.
If this "child" of 30 % will be mated with another csw of 34 % = 64 % : 2 = 32 %.

I think two issues are being mixed here:
1. the genetics
2. the distance from the last "fresh" wolf blood insertion, which has nothing to do with genetic calculations or percentages.

I don't belive people in DEFRA are that ignorant as to think that after 100 generations of matching CSV with CSV the GSD's genes would be earased from them, so why should the wolf's be? Maybe they think that if for several generations the dogs "behaved themselves" it would mean the 'wilderness' in them was tamed, but this argument is even more absurd in the light of the possibility of breeding "dangerous" breeds and the fact that even the Yorshire terrier may be a wild beast if badly socialised and treated.

I think DEFRA people don't want to legitimize the breed for totally different reasons, which I think I understand now better than before.

Still, it has nothing to do with allowing CSVs to travel to or to live in the UK to which there are no barriers other than for other breeds/dogs.

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Rona

I think two issues are being mixed here

Sure, Rona, you are right (as always ), but I think this is what tikaani wants to know. Maybe I´m wrong.

kind regards
Angelika

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Angelika

Sure, Rona, you are right (as always ), but I think this is what tikaani wants to know. Maybe I´m wrong.

Angelika, to tell you the truth, I still don't know what tikaani wants to know: whether wolf's genes will ever disappear from CSVs, if CSVs are allowed to live in the UK or if/when DEFRA will legitimize the breed and open stud books for CSVs in the UK..

Tikanni, I'm afraid only DEFRA is in a position to answer the last question, and I doubt if they're willing to.

[tikaani]

Originally Posted by Rona

Angelika, to tell you the truth, I still don't know what tikaani wants to know: whether wolf's genes will ever disappear from CSVs, if CSVs are allowed to live in the UK or if/when DEFRA will legitimize the breed and open stud books for CSVs in the UK..

Tikanni, I'm afraid only DEFRA is in a position to answer the last question, and I doubt if they're willing to.

after chating to local council about the mater, there opinion is that thay have no guidelines for this mater and that as it would be to hard to prove that there was wolf blood in them if they dint know about them then they wont do anything about it. they also sead that some one needs to get there finger out and supply a guide line on this breed to defra and get all councils to follow the same guide lines. they seemed quite excited about the cwd ( in a good way ) and sead if there were more over here then we would have more chance to get them legalised over here. Very nice man. thanks for all the possitive and negative info you all have supplied.

[Pavel]

Whole "wolfblood percentage" counting is absolutelly stupidity, because it says NOTHING. Its like you counting settlement density in country and you are supriced, that average density is 12 people/sqkm and you dont see so much people in forrest. "Wolfblood percentage" is pure aritmethic number. Have nothing to do with breed.
Rona write it correct. Every dog have some percentage of wilf animal, from which came in the past. But nobody can conting it, because is not the dates. Maybe some boxers or shitzu have more "wildblood percentage", than CsW, but nobody can counting it. And clearly mathematic - all dogs have 100% "wildblood", because dogs came not through crossing wild animals with some space creatures, but all dogs came from domestication wild animals only. This is differency between "domestication" and "wilfblood counting", whats many people dont want understand.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Whole "wolfblood percentage" counting is absolutelly stupidity, because it says NOTHING. Its like you counting settlement density in country and you are supriced, that average density is 12 people/sqkm and you dont see so much people in forrest. "Wolfblood percentage" is pure aritmethic number. Have nothing to do with breed.
Rona write it correct. Every dog have some percentage of wilf animal, from which came in the past. But nobody can conting it, because is not the dates. Maybe some boxers or shitzu have more "wildblood percentage", than CsW, but nobody can counting it. And clearly mathematic - all dogs have 100% "wildblood", because dogs came not through crossing wild animals with some space creatures, but all dogs came from domestication wild animals only. This is differency between "domestication" and "wilfblood counting", whats many people dont want understand.

Yes it is stupidety to count Wolf Blood I agree, and so does most of the breeders to.

But way do you have it on the Planned Litter then ??? comfusing buyers ???
especially when it ses "Data not available" or "Only fore Registred users.

In the text on this site it ses that it is a Hybrid mix from the begining, but nothing about that the hybrid after this was crosst only whit GSD from generation F2-F5 intill FCI allowed the breed as CsV in 1989, or am I wrong ???

If you would write this in the HISTORY maby people / gowerments don´t have to ask or worry about the Woof Blood ? less try to count ?

Swedish Kennel Club had exactly this argument to not allow the breed in there pedigee book fore years "it ses on the international website that it is a Hybid mix."

Best Regards / Mikael

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes it is stupidety to count Wolf Blood I agree, and so does most of the breeders to.
But way do you have it on the Planned Litter then ??? comfusing buyers ???
especially when it ses "Data not available" or "Only fore Registred users.

As it was mentioned several times earlier in some other threads, the idea of putting the wolfblood percentage was mainly for fun, more out of curiosity rather than anything else. Probably also because it was possible to calulate it for each single CSV. But there is no reason to treat it as an argument for or against the breed or find it more exciting than e.g. Wright's coefficient...

Przemek, I suggest that when reconstruting the database, instead putting the wolfblood, you should put the GSD blood percentage. People with the Little Red Riding Hood syndrom will probably not even notice it and the CSVs owners will still have their 'gadget'

Originally Posted by Mikael

In the text on this site it ses that it is a Hybrid mix from the begining, but nothing about that the hybrid after this was crosst only whit GSD from generation F2-F5 intill FCI allowed the breed as CsV in 1989, or am I wrong ???

Oh, come on Mikael.... How many times has it been written on this forum, that CSV are not hybrids but dogs, let alone this thread!!! A few posts earlier I wrote that in any CSV wolf genes will never be higher than around 30% and Hanka confirmed this.... I know there are people who have the habit of reading only the last post in a thread and replying to it, but I don't think that's our problem...

Originally Posted by Mikael

Swedish Kennel Club had exactly this argument to not allow the breed in there pedigee book fore years "it ses on the international website that it is a Hybid mix."

Maybe Swedish Kennel Club should employ people who are more internet literate and bother to read the history of the breed (top left part of the screen, next to breed standard) before making any official statements?...