Litters with unknow HD-results: should be removed or not?

[saschia]

I voted no, because I understood the question as whether the litters from not Xrayed/bonitated parents should or should not be included in the database and visible to anybody. But I thing they should not be included in advertisement of puppies.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by saschia

I voted no, because I understood the question as whether the litters from not Xrayed/bonitated parents should or should not be included in the database and visible to anybody. But I thing they should not be included in advertisement of puppies.

I voted yes...

But I think like you, it would be better whit a complite database and not let them sell the puppies whitout HD results.

This way in a short distance future all breeders will add the HD results to the database by (free) will.

Best regads / Mikael

[Hanka]

Hmmm. And: what we can see from adds on this site. In this moment is there 74 adds. 47litters have parents WITHOUT bonitation. It can be potentential danger, the pups will have some exterier defect, gen defect or parents have too bad character. Hmmmm. 21 litters is from parents (or one parent) without HD result. So pups from 21 litters can be bad for future breeding, they CAN have some problems. Only 29 litters (from 74!) is without problem and new owner will have hogher %, the puppy will be health and OK. Really, good result of short history of our breed.....

But in some countries somebody will NEVER control, if wolfdogs are health and stabil breed. And we will tell to everybody: "Yeees, it is health breed, it is good breed for training, for sports. " ha ha ha

Really sad view to our breed from countries of origin, what hapenned with this breed.

So Margo, I can tell you, what will be result of our voting....29:45 if will vote every person, what have adds here....29 for good future of our breed against 45 of producers. Maybe hard words, but true.

[massimo]

my 2 cents:
All litters should be allowed an ad on this site, without HD results, with Bad HD results, without bonitation, even those coming from kennels which Margo decided not to advertise any more ()
To do a good service to buyers, these litters should be showed SEPARATELY!!
Group 1) hd results and bonitation
Group 2) hd results and no bonitation (for some countries bonitation is not compulsory so it is not always "fault")
Group 3) no complete Hd results (even if only one parent has...) and no bonitation.

I believe people would start worrying and want their litter to be in group 1...

Maybe group 1 should have most evidence and the others will appear down on the site and only if you scroll down...

So, NO censoring new litters but distinguishing between breeders who work hard and get results and breeders who don't care.

Massimo

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by massimo

To do a good service to buyers, these litters should be showed SEPARATELY!!

Maybe you do not have the problem with "purebreed' dogs without pedigrees in Italy But here in Lithuania people often say "oh, I don't need a pedigree - I won't breed the dog, do not want to go to shows, I just want a purebreed friend and I want it cheap". In the way you recomend we will have "cheaper dogs' list" and "more expensive for snobs". If the litters just will not be advertised, maybe at least 1 "breeder" from 10 will decide to make HD ("if that ugly witch Margo wants that badly" )

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

If the litters just will not be advertised, maybe at least 1 "breeder" from 10 will decide to make HD ("if that ugly witch Margo wants that badly" )

Hey Vaiva, i don't really agree with this.
Not having ad on wolfdog doesn't mean the people will not sell the litters...

On the contrary: when there is a "suspect" litter wiith bad HD result or other problems, we speak a lot about it on forums and things like this, and breeders and owners are alerted by such conditions. Instead, no evidence on WD means the "csw community" doesn't know anything about it... things happen in the mist...strange crossings are being done but nobody knows about them!


p.s. Margo is not ugly... but she is a witch, i'm sure!!
massimo

[massimo]

sorry, almost forgot:
of course rules for entering Groups A, B, C should be clear so breeders who post new litters know that if they don't send Margo official HD test and bonitation for both parents, then they can forget being in group A.
Dream? all litters published in Group A and B and C totally empty!

There are many dogs which I know for sure that they have HD results but in the litters they are not published, so they go to group C straight away.
Owners will take take of that and be more carefull, i'm sure!

massimo

[massimo]

I analysed the actual litters and, considering "youth" bonitations as not good for breeding (we all know how youth bonitations do not take into consideration certaing factors and shouldn't be considered as valid for breeding...), the new advertisments for litters would look like this:

Group A litters: both parents with HD results and Bonitation

nov-08 1 z Holštejna
nov-08 20 z Údolí ticha
nov-08 20 z Blatnických vinic
nov-08 28 Taabernakkelin
nov-08 30 Waawanyanka

dic-08 1 z Kopá?kova dvora
dic-08 1 od Úhošt?
dic-08 5 von der Wolfsranch
dic-08 15 de Molay
dic-08 19 z Revíru vlk?
dic-08 21 Kuklík
dic-08 22 Polární vlk
dic-08 23 z V?rné sme?ky
dic-08 29 spod ?umbiera
dic-08 31 Braterstwo wilczaków

gen-09 10 z Údolí st?íbra
gen-09 12 Tasha
gen-09 15 la Blackwolfdog Cie
gen-09 15 St?íbrný úpln?k
gen-09 17 Norský vlk
gen-09 20 z Datova ráje
gen-09 24 vom Dreiburgenblick
gen-09 25 z Devínskej g
gen-09 31 Sioux Tala

feb-09 1 Foresta Incantata
feb-09 6 ???
feb-09 17 Olim Palus
feb-09 21 Outlaws Heaven

Group B litters: both parents with HD results but not with Bonitation

ott-08 10 Terre dell'Est

nov-08 10 Yggdrasill
nov-08 22 Sulle Orme del Lupo

dic-08 1 od Úhošt?
dic-08 12 du Domaine de la Combe Noire
dic-08 20 Crying Wolf
dic-08 20 du Domaine de la Combe Noire
dic-08 23 del Montale
dic-08 29 ??? (priv de Angeli)
dic-08 29 du Domaine de la Combe Noire
dic-08 29 Braterstwo wilczaków

gen-09 1 z Peronówki
gen-09 1 Arimminum
gen-09 3 delle Ombre d'Argento
gen-09 16 Grey Diamond
gen-09 18 Casa della Rosa
gen-09 24 vom Westerwälder Berg
gen-09 25 Crying Wolf
gen-09 25 z Peronówki
gen-09 27 Outlaws Heaven
gen-09 30 Wilczy Duch
gen-09 30 Lupi di Monte Morello

feb-09 1 Foresta Incantata
feb-09 15 Foresta Incantata

ott-08 15 de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale

Group C litters: both parents NOT with HD results or Bonitation

nov-08 8 Lupi dei Camurati
nov-08 10 les P'tits Loups d'Amour
nov-08 13 von Neckartal
nov-08 15 ??? (priv Ascheri)

dic-08 1 z Orel Ochrana
dic-08 4 Gardiens de la Cour
dic-08 5 Gardiens de la Cour
dic-08 6 Balze del Lupo
dic-08 10 de la Louve Blanche
dic-08 12 della Vittoria Alata
dic-08 15 von Königs-Terry
dic-08 20 la Valle del Lupo
dic-08 20 Crying Wolf
dic-08 25 il Paradiso del Lupo

gen-09 1 z Orel Ochrana
gen-09 15 Inguz Felan
gen-09 15 de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus
gen-09 15 de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus
gen-09 25 Crying Wolf

feb-09 5 de l'Arche du Férion

mar-09 1 de la Louve Blanche

What do you think?
massimo

[wolfin]

hmm me like this method. and this groupe A, B, C help to people see who is who.

what think others?

[Navarre]

I voted NO. We should know everything.

I think the better idea is that one of Vaiva.
I don't agree with colour, group and so on...wd should not "judge" a litter :at least for people "green" will be a nicer litter than "yellow" , but how be sure of this ?

For example a stud hd-A but with high dysplasic brother make a litter : is this litter "good" (green) or not ?

Or a bonitation code of a parodistic bonitation can assure that good (green) dog is SO good ?

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by massimo

my 2 cents:
All litters should be allowed an ad on this site, without HD results, with Bad HD results, without bonitation, even those coming from kennels which Margo decided not to advertise any more ()
To do a good service to buyers, these litters should be showed SEPARATELY!!
Group 1) hd results and bonitation
Group 2) hd results and no bonitation (for some countries bonitation is not compulsory so it is not always "fault")
Group 3) no complete Hd results (even if only one parent has...) and no bonitation.

I believe people would start worrying and want their litter to be in group 1...

Maybe group 1 should have most evidence and the others will appear down on the site and only if you scroll down...

So, NO censoring new litters but distinguishing between breeders who work hard and get results and breeders who don't care.

Massimo

I think this is a very good solution
It is not possible to stop breeders who don`t care about HD anyway, but I am sure that all serious breeders want to be in group 1 and in this way it is still possible to see a complete list of litters...

Greetings Rolf

[Hanka]

I agree with groups too. Something (for begin) is better than nothing.

And Group A will have Font number 18 and group C will have Font number 4

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Group A will have Font number 18 and group C will have Font number 4

it may seem funny but it's not a bad idea!
ok 18 - 4 is too much but... MORE EVIDENCE to Group A!!
Breeders who work a lot on their litters, train, bonitate etc should be somehow PRIZED for it.

For example if your dog may be the most beautiful wolfdog around, I admit it, but if he doesn't have adult bonitation and you breed with him, it's your choice, so you DON'T go to group A!!

massimo

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Hanka

I agree with groups too. Something (for begin) is better than nothing.

And Group A will have Font number 18 and group C will have Font number 4

Or maby green, yellow and red

Regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by massimo

my 2 cents:
All litters should be allowed an ad on this site, without HD results, with Bad HD results, without bonitation, even those coming from kennels which Margo decided not to advertise any more ()
To do a good service to buyers, these litters should be showed SEPARATELY!!
Group 1) hd results and bonitation
Group 2) hd results and no bonitation (for some countries bonitation is not compulsory so it is not always "fault")
Group 3) no complete Hd results (even if only one parent has...) and no bonitation.

I believe people would start worrying and want their litter to be in group 1...

Maybe group 1 should have most evidence and the others will appear down on the site and only if you scroll down...

So, NO censoring new litters but distinguishing between breeders who work hard and get results and breeders who don't care.

Massimo

Sounds like a good solution Massimo

Maby not the best, but certainly better then nothing

This way the database will stay compleat to

And in the future maby the step will not be as big as now
to throw some breeders out the back

Best regards / Mikael