HD & CsV

elf · 03-11-2008, 15:48

Other protective element:

"Hip dysplasia has not been reported in the wild undomesticated carnivorous animals, such as wolves and foxes. A study of their pattern of growth found that the pups were slow-growing and late maturing. The young pups were whelped in dens. As newborns, they received their nourishment by nursing during the first few weeks. When more food was required, the mother killed rodents and either brought them to the den or ate the animal where it was killed and then returned to the den where the ingested rodents were regurgitated for the young to eat.(61) Young carnivores were quite mature and 6 to 10 months old before they began to hunt. The amount of food available for the growing members of a litter was limited. This caused the young to mature slowly and remain thin and light for their body size. Such an environment favored the completion of ossification and developmental maturity of the joint before the hips could be subjected to possible injury, incongruity, or subluxation from excessive extrinsic forces (e.g., excessive body weight) (65,69)"

elf · 03-11-2008, 15:50

... but this protective way of living doesn't mean free HD-gene carrier.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 03-11-2008, 16:27

That´s the point. There is no dog breed 100% free of HD and all dogs are descendents of wolf. It can be a mutation but the breeds developed on very different places.

Nebelwölfe · 03-11-2008, 16:39

I think I read about examinations they made in the US on wolves (it might have been in Yellowstone National Park), which were killed (by cars) - and they found some wolves which had HD. It is a while ago, that I read it, so I do not know the source any more - but maybe I can find out.

Petra

Mikael · 04-11-2008, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlepeet

I think I read about examinations they made in the US on wolves (it might have been in Yellowstone National Park), which were killed (by cars) - and they found some wolves which had HD. It is a while ago, that I read it, so I do not know the source any more - but maybe I can find out.

Petra

I have also read about wolves whit HD, I think it was a Timber Wolf...

But I think it is very unusual, and it is also hard to know if this wolf had
food enough as a pup to develop a good bone structure...

But I´am no expert on this subject area, and do not know exactly how
much the food influence on the development of HD.

Is it possible to develop HD even if it is not inherit from the parents,
only by bad food or no food ???

Regards / Mikael

elf · 04-11-2008, 11:32

I know a link on the other direction, too much food => high growth rate => more risk for HD and ED.

elf · 04-11-2008, 11:48

Extracts from a French PhD published in 2005 (http://revmedvet.com/2005/RVM156_138_147.pdf), sorry if the translation is not accurate I used a translator:

“E - The food is not however the only factor in
cause. The genetics remains in spite of very dominating.

It is noted that the frequency and the gravity of the DCF are
all the more important as the parents are themselves
more reached. The crossing of unscathed parents of dysplasy
give subjects among which percentage of dysplasic
is weak. This percentage increases when them
parents are reached of light dysplasy; it is even more
raised if the parents present a severe dysplasy [23, 34].
The conditions of breeding, in particular the food, do not have
that an incomplete action and cannot thwart completely
effects of the genetics. Thus, LUST [22] showed
that if the control of the food could prevent the development
DCF in dogs resulting parents phénotypiquement
unscathed or affected of light dysplasy,
a food restriction cannot prevent the dysplasy
at products whose parents have a moderate dysplasy
with severe. “

“Control of the composition of food

After the introduced quantity, the second factor on which
an intervention is possible is the composition of food
proposed. This control relates in particular to greases which
mainly determine the energy density of food,
calcium and proteins, although an excess of these
last in the dog, unlike the other species,
do not involve effects prejudicial on the metabolism of
calcium or the development of the skeleton [31]. “

“If the food is suitable, a calcic complement
is not only useless but also prejudicial. One should not
not to transpose to the food of the dog this saying of
popular wisdom according to which “abundance of good cannot
not to harm”, considering that the calcium excess will be eliminated.
However, it was shown, in various species of which the dog,
that at the very young subjects, the absorption of calcium is
directly connected to the quantity present in the food
[13].

In short, for the dogs at the risk, it is recommended of
to choose a food whose characteristics are the following ones
[31]:
- Energy: 3,2 to 3,8 kcal/g (13,4 to 15,9 kj/g)
- Grease: not more than 12% ms
- Calcium: from 0,7 to 1,2% ms
- Proteins: from 22 to 32% ms "

“Zootechnical

If the food is an important risk factor, it
is that for the genotypes dysplasic and not for
others [5]. By the search for a slow growth rate or
at least adapted better to the race, the food is likely
to mask laxity, dysplasic expression of the genotype
: the animal will become a negative forgery [6, 16]. Admittedly one
will not mask all the dysplasies, but it will result from it
larger errors on the evaluation of the genetic statute
reproducers. “

“That brings moreover to raise another question: with
which period of the growth overfeeding is
more prejudicial as for the appearance of the DCF? All
period of growth, of the birth in 12 months is in fact
sensitive, but two periods appear particularly
important:
- the first 60 days according to HAZEWINKEL [13] but
also LUST [21] which highlighted it on pups born
by Caesarean.
- the period from 3 to 8 months as the many ones attest it
authors and in particular between 2nd and the 4th month,
when the process of ossification is with its maximum. “

“It is mainly the excess of energy contribution which is
prejudicial, especially if it is combined with excesses of contribution
calcic or with ionic imbalances of the ration. “

03-11-2008, 15:48	#1
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	Other protective element: "Hip dysplasia has not been reported in the wild undomesticated carnivorous animals, such as wolves and foxes. A study of their pattern of growth found that the pups were slow-growing and late maturing. The young pups were whelped in dens. As newborns, they received their nourishment by nursing during the first few weeks. When more food was required, the mother killed rodents and either brought them to the den or ate the animal where it was killed and then returned to the den where the ingested rodents were regurgitated for the young to eat.(61) Young carnivores were quite mature and 6 to 10 months old before they began to hunt. The amount of food available for the growing members of a litter was limited. This caused the young to mature slowly and remain thin and light for their body size. Such an environment favored the completion of ossification and developmental maturity of the joint before the hips could be subjected to possible injury, incongruity, or subluxation from excessive extrinsic forces (e.g., excessive body weight) (65,69)"

03-11-2008, 15:50	#2
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	... but this protective way of living doesn't mean free HD-gene carrier.

03-11-2008, 16:27	#3
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	That´s the point. There is no dog breed 100% free of HD and all dogs are descendents of wolf. It can be a mutation but the breeds developed on very different places.

03-11-2008, 16:39	#4
Nebelwölfe Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: am Hochrhein Posts: 771	I think I read about examinations they made in the US on wolves (it might have been in Yellowstone National Park), which were killed (by cars) - and they found some wolves which had HD. It is a while ago, that I read it, so I do not know the source any more - but maybe I can find out. Petra

04-11-2008, 11:32	#6
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	I know a link on the other direction, too much food => high growth rate => more risk for HD and ED.

04-11-2008, 11:48	#7
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	Extracts from a French PhD published in 2005 (http://revmedvet.com/2005/RVM156_138_147.pdf), sorry if the translation is not accurate I used a translator: “E - The food is not however the only factor in cause. The genetics remains in spite of very dominating. It is noted that the frequency and the gravity of the DCF are all the more important as the parents are themselves more reached. The crossing of unscathed parents of dysplasy give subjects among which percentage of dysplasic is weak. This percentage increases when them parents are reached of light dysplasy; it is even more raised if the parents present a severe dysplasy [23, 34]. The conditions of breeding, in particular the food, do not have that an incomplete action and cannot thwart completely effects of the genetics. Thus, LUST [22] showed that if the control of the food could prevent the development DCF in dogs resulting parents phénotypiquement unscathed or affected of light dysplasy, a food restriction cannot prevent the dysplasy at products whose parents have a moderate dysplasy with severe. “ “Control of the composition of food After the introduced quantity, the second factor on which an intervention is possible is the composition of food proposed. This control relates in particular to greases which mainly determine the energy density of food, calcium and proteins, although an excess of these last in the dog, unlike the other species, do not involve effects prejudicial on the metabolism of calcium or the development of the skeleton [31]. “ “If the food is suitable, a calcic complement is not only useless but also prejudicial. One should not not to transpose to the food of the dog this saying of popular wisdom according to which “abundance of good cannot not to harm”, considering that the calcium excess will be eliminated. However, it was shown, in various species of which the dog, that at the very young subjects, the absorption of calcium is directly connected to the quantity present in the food [13]. In short, for the dogs at the risk, it is recommended of to choose a food whose characteristics are the following ones [31]: - Energy: 3,2 to 3,8 kcal/g (13,4 to 15,9 kj/g) - Grease: not more than 12% ms - Calcium: from 0,7 to 1,2% ms - Proteins: from 22 to 32% ms " “Zootechnical If the food is an important risk factor, it is that for the genotypes dysplasic and not for others [5]. By the search for a slow growth rate or at least adapted better to the race, the food is likely to mask laxity, dysplasic expression of the genotype : the animal will become a negative forgery [6, 16]. Admittedly one will not mask all the dysplasies, but it will result from it larger errors on the evaluation of the genetic statute reproducers. “ “That brings moreover to raise another question: with which period of the growth overfeeding is more prejudicial as for the appearance of the DCF? All period of growth, of the birth in 12 months is in fact sensitive, but two periods appear particularly important: - the first 60 days according to HAZEWINKEL [13] but also LUST [21] which highlighted it on pups born by Caesarean. - the period from 3 to 8 months as the many ones attest it authors and in particular between 2nd and the 4th month, when the process of ossification is with its maximum. “ “It is mainly the excess of energy contribution which is prejudicial, especially if it is combined with excesses of contribution calcic or with ionic imbalances of the ration. “