Epilepsy and wolfdogs!?

Nebulosa · 11-09-2008, 07:57 PM

Zitat:

Zitat von jmvdwiel

You wil never know if a dog is completely healthy also not if you get al the information from the owner... but I think it is not wise to use a dog with an ilness that is probably hereditary

Yes, but there is the question, you know the dog in this case isn't epileptyc by genetic, but by accident.
I would use without problem if he have interessing line and if I was sure about the truth of the history told by the owner.

jmvdwiel · 11-09-2008, 08:03 PM

what about a dog that is dysplastic and the owner tell's you that he made a slippery on the smooth surface when he was a young dog ...... would you use this dog also?

Nebulosa · 11-09-2008, 08:28 PM

Zitat:

Zitat von jmvdwiel

what about a dog that is dysplastic and the owner tell's you that he made a slippery on the smooth surface when he was a young dog ...... would you use this dog also?

We're talking about very different illness.
If you beat the head of your dog, he can hurt his brain enought to have epilepsy for the rest of his life, and this surelly won't be genetic.
At moment I really not believe that exists non genetic displasy even proof me the contrary, I never see a case of non-genetic displasy as nor a good explanation to this, a heavy dog wich pass his life slippering in a smoth surface can have articulation problems that can interfere in hip's results giving a worst results, like a B, but not displasy if he not have it genetically, but, if he already be displasic, the results can get really worst, and this will be genetic anyway.

Margo · 11-09-2008, 09:01 PM

Zitat:

Zitat von jmvdwiel

what about a dog that is dysplastic and the owner tell's you that he made a slippery on the smooth surface when he was a young dog ...... would you use this dog also?

No. Smooth surface will cause dyspalsia only by dog which have genetic basis for the HD... You have the same with fat puppies - such puppies and heavy wolfdogs have more % of displatic dogs than wolfdogs in the wolf type (lighter)... We saw also the relationship between the HD results and type of food the dog gets...
But always there is some genetic reason behind it... and I would take it into consideration...

Zitat:

Zitat von jmvdwiel

You wil never know if a dog is completely healthy also not if you get al the information from the owner... but I think it is not wise to use a dog with an ilness that is probably hereditary

Look, I'm not agaist you.. I really agree with you - I just follow the DR. House words "I don't ask why dog owners and breeders lie, I just assume they all do"...

No, I will not use such dog... But using healthy one I can never be sure if the dog is 100% healthy and the owner is not hiding some dark facts about his dog...

loco · 11-09-2008, 10:40 PM

Zitat:

Zitat von Margo

But using healthy one I can never be sure if the dog is 100% healthy and the owner is not hiding some dark facts about his dog...

You can, but than you have to wait until the dog is a year of 10.
It will be much easier to live but also boring if you know everything 100%

.

But I also believe not everything is genetic.

Groette Martine.

miran · 11-10-2008, 12:24 AM

The only thing that bugs me with every Discussion about diseases
that every one jumps one rear legs. Why??????????

Everyone love the breed and want the best for it. Or not????

Maybe there aren't a lot who has epilepsy.We want to find out if there are and so how many etc because they do survey to the GEN of primary epilepsy:http://www.koirangeenit.fi:80/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id= 18&Itemid=44

I don't believe that other country's don't have dogs whit epilepsy because my dog is one of those in Holland that has it and her breeder has lots of dogs all over Europe from the same line.And it is a race what has arisen from the German shepherd. That line is much more sensitive to epilepsy.So i don't understand that people jumps on there rear legs because if you know things you can make the breed better. No it does not mean that you know if a dog is 100% healthy but why make the change that you can have a unhealthy dog bigger?????? That's not what you want for the dog if you really love him/her. Is it????

Manishdra · 11-10-2008, 02:20 PM

I think Epilepsy shouldn't be taken lightly. And of course there are many influences that can cause secundair epilepsy. But is there anyone who wants to take the risk to breed with a dog with primairy epilesy?

I could say that my dog has bumpt her head into something when she was young. So can I breed now? No, I will not breed with her because the risk is to high. I don't want little puppy's with epilepsie and I don't want a breed with a lot of epilesie. And it is very pitty, because my darling has a very good karakter.

How can you verify that it is something from the out-side? For example the wolfdog earlyer spoken of had many "witnesses" but who says that is was the hitting on the head that caused the epilepsy? Maybe is was the primairy what came later on in his life.

If my dog had bumped her head very heavy in the past... could I point the epilepsy to that? Or should I not take the risk that it could be primairy epilespy? Ok, with some things you can profe it, like the cleaning stuff... when it is gone there will be no attack and visa versa. But you can't profe everything, and then you are taking a risk!

Something else: There came somewhere the statement that I could be something here in the netherlands that could cause the "lange amount of" epilesy here. But could it not be that a lot of owners do not know that their dogs have epilesie? A lot of wolfdog owners, keep then out-side in a large kennel. How do you know a dog of you had an attack? Because of the faeces or urin? Maybe because he/she is out of breath or is covered slime? Or could all of that have a more les dramatic cause? It had a real need or had just played a lot? And than I am talking about the worse type of epilepsie, not the "lighter" types, which leave no signs behind.

Ofcourse I'm not saying that you should see epilepsy everywhere. But I get the idea from some reactions that epilepsy is taken to light... and I think we all agree we don't want epilepsy as a disease that comes with the breed, like with other breeds.

loco · 11-10-2008, 02:51 PM

I'm sorry, but I do not think that anyone here thinks lightly about the disease

.

11-10-2008, 02:20 PM	#7
Manishdra Junior Member Registriert seit: Jul 2006 Ort: Nijmegen Beiträge: 331	I think Epilepsy shouldn't be taken lightly. And of course there are many influences that can cause secundair epilepsy. But is there anyone who wants to take the risk to breed with a dog with primairy epilesy? I could say that my dog has bumpt her head into something when she was young. So can I breed now? No, I will not breed with her because the risk is to high. I don't want little puppy's with epilepsie and I don't want a breed with a lot of epilesie. And it is very pitty, because my darling has a very good karakter. How can you verify that it is something from the out-side? For example the wolfdog earlyer spoken of had many "witnesses" but who says that is was the hitting on the head that caused the epilepsy? Maybe is was the primairy what came later on in his life. If my dog had bumped her head very heavy in the past... could I point the epilepsy to that? Or should I not take the risk that it could be primairy epilespy? Ok, with some things you can profe it, like the cleaning stuff... when it is gone there will be no attack and visa versa. But you can't profe everything, and then you are taking a risk! Something else: There came somewhere the statement that I could be something here in the netherlands that could cause the "lange amount of" epilesy here. But could it not be that a lot of owners do not know that their dogs have epilesie? A lot of wolfdog owners, keep then out-side in a large kennel. How do you know a dog of you had an attack? Because of the faeces or urin? Maybe because he/she is out of breath or is covered slime? Or could all of that have a more les dramatic cause? It had a real need or had just played a lot? And than I am talking about the worse type of epilepsie, not the "lighter" types, which leave no signs behind. Ofcourse I'm not saying that you should see epilepsy everywhere. But I get the idea from some reactions that epilepsy is taken to light... and I think we all agree we don't want epilepsy as a disease that comes with the breed, like with other breeds. Geändert von Manishdra (11-10-2008 um 02:22 PM Uhr)

11-10-2008, 02:51 PM	#8
loco Non active. Registriert seit: Nov 2006 Ort: Outside, walking the dog. Beiträge: 2.873	I'm sorry, but I do not think that anyone here thinks lightly about the disease . __________________ Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away .

11-09-2008, 08:03 PM	#2
jmvdwiel Senior Member Registriert seit: Apr 2007 Beiträge: 1.061	what about a dog that is dysplastic and the owner tell's you that he made a slippery on the smooth surface when he was a young dog ...... would you use this dog also?

11-10-2008, 12:24 AM	#6
miran Junior Member Registriert seit: Oct 2008 Beiträge: 245	The only thing that bugs me with every Discussion about diseases that every one jumps one rear legs. Why?????????? Everyone love the breed and want the best for it. Or not???? Maybe there aren't a lot who has epilepsy.We want to find out if there are and so how many etc because they do survey to the GEN of primary epilepsy:http://www.koirangeenit.fi:80/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id= 18&Itemid=44 I don't believe that other country's don't have dogs whit epilepsy because my dog is one of those in Holland that has it and her breeder has lots of dogs all over Europe from the same line.And it is a race what has arisen from the German shepherd. That line is much more sensitive to epilepsy.So i don't understand that people jumps on there rear legs because if you know things you can make the breed better. No it does not mean that you know if a dog is 100% healthy but why make the change that you can have a unhealthy dog bigger?????? That's not what you want for the dog if you really love him/her. Is it????