Italian bonitations

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by rolf

sorry but the link you posted don`t work ?

Yes, I know. I corrected it again - obviously I´m too blond

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Angelika

Yes, I know. I corrected it again - obviously I´m too blond

Thanks for the 2th correction
But I still did not get any explanation from this thread regarding why(and if) Italian bonitations is officially not recognized as valid by Cz and Sk breedingcommittee`s or if it is only on wolfdog.org ? as Massimo also have asked about in the thread "differences in bonitations" ....maybe Hanka who is member of Cz breedingcommittee can bring some light on this question ?

If this is a fact, that Italian bonitations is not recognized as valid, I fully understand your statement ....except the part with Italian dogs(this is out of porportions I think).

Please keep an open mind

Greetings Rolf

[Nebelwölfe]

Originally Posted by Margo

Die Korungsergebnisse sind nicht ins Datenbank eigetragen, weil laut tschechischen und slowakischen Regeln NUR die Korungen anerkannt sind, die zu den in CZ und SK VERGLEICHBAR sind. Italieniesche Korung erfullt es leider nicht. Fabio (und ein paar andere Zuchter) haben ein grosses Problem mit den Charaktertest gehabt (seien wir ehrlich - fast keine Hunde von ihm wurden den Charaktertest bestehen). Er hat also darum gesorgt, dass der Charaktertest gestrichen wurde, so dass auch extremm scheue Hunde in der Lage sind, sehr gute Noten zu bekommen....

Margo wrote: According to czech and slowakian rules bonitations (in other countries) are only approved, if they are comparable to the ones in Slovakia and Czech Republic. Italian bonitations do not fullfill the requirements. Therfore the results are not listed in database. Fabio (and some other breeders) do have a big problem with test of character (to be honest - hardly any of their dogs would pass this test). He therefore took care, that test of character in Italy was removed from bonitation - so that extremly shy dogs also could get good bonitation codes.

[Angelika]

Thanks, Petra

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by littlepeet

Margo wrote: According to czech and slowakian rules bonitations (in other countries) are only approved, if they are comparable to the ones in Slovakia and Czech Republic. Italian bonitations do not fullfill the requirements. Therfore the results are not listed in database. Fabio (and some other breeders) do have a big problem with test of character (to be honest - hardly any of their dogs would pass this test). He therefore took care, that test of character in Italy was removed from bonitation - so that extremly shy dogs also could get good bonitation codes.

Thanks for translation
This is quit funny, because according to the thread called "difference in bonitation" Cz and Sk bonitations is not all comparable(they jugde in different ways), so they should not even be valid themselves

This raises some new questions for me :
Where is the limit for how comparable they must be or does this only apply for other countries ?
What variation should other countries follow to be sure that their bonitation will be valid, Cz or Sk bonitation ?

Greetings Rolf

[saschia]

Rolf, regarding the difference between SK and Cz bonitation and any of these with It bonitation - you casn see the difference clearly. Both Sk and Cz have character test. Morover, these tests are quite similar, and the judges are exoperienced, so that's why the two clubs do not have problems accepting each other's bonitation codes. And we are cooperatin in making new and better tests, which would be used in both countries.

Italians (meaning the club, not individuals) do not want character tests, so they cannot expect that we will accept their bonitation codes at face value. Even if I do not consider results of character tests in early german bonitation really true (as I know that the dogs are brought up very differently in Germany that Slovakia, so the same test are not good), at least they do make the test and I as a breeder can decide if I am afraid to use Ob dog or not. Also, if character test is done in the country, then the breeders and owners know what to expect and will learn how to bring up the dogs to get results which really reflect the character of the dog.

[Margo]

Originally Posted by littlepeet

Italian bonitations do not fullfill the requirements.

I forgot one more thing - I mean here bonitation made according to the italian rules. Many Italian owners see this problem and decided to make bonitation which fullfil the requirement - such bonitations are made for example by the Czech Club (maybe also by the Slovakian Club) according to the Czech (Slovakian) rules but in Italy. In this case results are valid and listed in database....

[Juniorwolf]

Margo and Sasha

Thanks for your replies

As you might know, I was in Serramazzoni 6.9.2008(at the show 7.9.2008 both of my dogs got 2.place) and saw most of this bonitation and there was a character test with some figurant, so this Italian bonitation should be valid !
...or am I missing something ?

It is not like I have to defend this bonitation(my oldest dog already have bonitation from Cz and my youngest dog was too young even for youth presentation), I just think it is strange that the country with the biggest population of CSW in the whole world don`t get their bonitations recognized and it is a shame, because of thise almost 100 dogs who was at the dogshow, many of them was VERY VERY beautyful and had a quite normal character(I don`t remember any dogs who was extremly shy) maybe one or two was a little shy, but not something that I have not seen in other countries as well.



Greetings Rolf

[Margo]

Originally Posted by rolf

saw most of this bonitation and there was a character test with some figurant, so this Italian bonitation should be valid !
...or am I missing something ?

The owner was with the dog for the whole time?

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Margo

The owner was with the dog for the whole time?

Yes ! ...I did not think of this ?
But is this really so importent, when(I have read and seen) that such famous and experienced jugdes as for example Sona Bognárová, Jindøich Jedlièka and Monika Soukupová have accepted this during a bonitation ? when for example Cz and SK jugdes have different opinions of how to give the code R1(dry type) + the question about 1cm too little in height = P14 ?

Personally I don`t think one is worse than the other, I think all(also Cz and Sk) bonitations have to have to be exactly the same before some can point fingers at others with small faults ! ...but ofcourse I am not an expert, very experinced in CSW or member of any breedingcommittee, so maybe I am wrong ?

Greetings Rolf