Crying Wolf - kennel

jasmine · 12-12-2008, 12:51

try to find more...because there are !!!!!!

jasmine · 12-12-2008, 12:55

and another but important things: every country has got the own breeding rules.....as my country and my klub has got as well...........we have caracter test (shouting, the dog must be touchable,protection work together with owner),other part is the judgment of the dog (exteriour), need two excelent showresults and HD results. Whithout any of them I couldn't get pedigree for the pups......
My klub accept just the hungarian "bonitacio"

martiou07 · 12-12-2008, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmine

try to find more...because there are !!!!!!

not, afflicted, there is not

jasmine · 12-12-2008, 13:23

Fortuna Crying Wolf, Wolfy,Wickey,Ushas Crying Wolf ....
and please tell me how many imported dogs are in Slovakia and CzehRep from other countries and are in breeding
it is another usless discussion

elf · 12-12-2008, 14:36

Thanks this talk start to be informative.

Quote:

so, I will tell you a story about HD examinations: one Xray was examined in CzehRep and got HD/C...the same Xray was sent to Poland and got HD/A, the same xray was sent to Slovakia and got HD/A and this xray was sent to my vet and got HD/D!!!!!!After this case no worth to talking about Hd results......

You are making several mistakes here.
No let's talk about it. People please share your experiences if you have strong different HD results from different country. I would be very astonished that there is a country very different from another. Another problem is the focus on the letter, does the dog has arthrosis, does the dog show passive laxity, regular bones shape, coverage trouble ? I can assure you that a hip with HD-D really shows troubles visible for almost any vets, so mistery...
Another problem is focuses too much the dog result as the pedigree analysis is very important, breeders argues that this dog is A this one is B, no problem mating them ! But checking the HD of back-relatives and back-back-relative are almost all non HD free, so yes statistically there is a real breeding trouble here. Intrinsic A has not the same value as some other and this should be in the equation. But people are puzzled, because it jumps generations, and it's "only" probability etc... HD probabilistic model just works, so worth making a deep care on that point.

Quote:

Another things: inbreeding and linebreeding is not the same...and please write me what is your problem with my consaguinity? Have I got ill dogs? Are my pups die very early?Have you got any other defects? More than from other breeders? I think no........and why write that I use always high consaguinity? I couldn't see strong relativities inbetween Geri and Demon or Quenno and Demon, or Ali and Rubin or Argo and Queety and I could continue.......
I breed for my taste,for my fun.....and fortunately there are a lot of people who like my dogs!!!!

COI between 15% and 20% on five generations is a strong consanguinity, especially if we want to have a global politic/view large scale for this breed. Another error breeders make is to check only for 5 generations, but almost any "non consanguinity" mating in this breed is in reality around 20%, and so some of your mating (not high consanguinity for you) are indeed 40%-45% COI ; this means that for all the dog genome (around 22000 genes I guess) it's statistically more than 9000 possibility for an allele to meet its counter part (remembering that 3/4 of genetic disease comes from recessive trait), this is really too high... and really not needed, nowadays we can, and have to, breed differently if we want not dark future days...

jasmine · 12-12-2008, 14:50

Of course our hd examination is not consist of just the angulation...we have a complete examination form and my ver examined a lot of things such as

osition of hip-joins,shape of whirtbone,status of the acetabulum,articular space and last but not least the Norberg measuring. So I think it is complex and complete.
About the dark future: believe me don't think that I would be the biggest enemy of this breed.
And as this kind of discussion hurt not just me but every owner of my dogs I realy want to finish it! I don't think that I have to justify myself....and guys it would be better to deal with your own things!

elf · 12-12-2008, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmine

Of course our hd examination is not consist of just the angulation...we have a complete examination form and my ver examined a lot of things such as

osition of hip-joins,shape of whirtbone,status of the acetabulum,articular space and last but not least the Norberg measuring. So I think it is complex and complete.
About the dark future: believe me don't think that I would be the biggest enemy of this breed.
And as this kind of discussion hurt not just me but every owner of my dogs I realy want to finish it! I don't think that I have to justify myself....and guys it would be better to deal with your own things!

Thanks for the answers you provided in this thread. I won't go any further as I have answers I wanted.

martiou07 · 12-12-2008, 14:56

I speak to you already about the males having could reproduce as Slovakia and Czech republic .....

after your dogs like, it is very well Mrs Molnar .....

I know well Robin Hood crying Wolf, i already saw Volos, Yanatos ..... they are beautiful dogs, but you still knew to avoid my question

my question :
"all d' access I hold to specify you that j' certain dog coming from your production, for some I saw tell you cheer, some are splendid, of the types very lupoide, for d' others ......... but that is normal, all cannot be perfect, and that I include/understand it
on the other hand what I include/understand less, which you a type whom you had recourse tostrong rate of consanguinity in your first marriage in order to fix like, I include/understand, but why still do have recourse to this selection in your recent marriages??
I see that on some that seems to me much better, you vary a little more on your choices of marriage, but why that :

ex. phaedra /Blue = 15.82.....%
Rubin/Blue = 19.43....%
Flash/Issar = 20.50...%
Galiba/flash = 16.06....%
........ i decree there because there is much of it

thus in come to ask me a question, which is addressed to you as to the other stockbreeders?? Must one hold account of it so much…. my opinion on this question, is that on such a recent race, I find that not careful of the whole, i have can be wrong, but I do not see interest…."

or then, your answer is as simple as that???
my pups like and nothing other????

indeed, us let us have at all the same vision of interest of canine breeding Mrs Molnar

jasmine · 12-12-2008, 15:02

I don't understand what is your problem exactly????Are the pups from these 4 marriage bad? Ill? Bad HD? Bad caracter?Small???
I strongly must tell you NO!!!!! All of them are healthy and very nice, promote the type what I like!!!!

martiou07 · 12-12-2008, 15:09

why have still recourse to as much consanguinity?????
which is interest now that you did find the type of dog wolf which you seek????
after what I include/understand, finally, one should not take account of consanguinity and we can marry import which dog.....

you understand ?

your opinion with you on consanguinity??

12-12-2008, 14:56	#8
martiou07 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,986	I speak to you already about the males having could reproduce as Slovakia and Czech republic ..... after your dogs like, it is very well Mrs Molnar ..... I know well Robin Hood crying Wolf, i already saw Volos, Yanatos ..... they are beautiful dogs, but you still knew to avoid my question my question : "all d' access I hold to specify you that j' certain dog coming from your production, for some I saw tell you cheer, some are splendid, of the types very lupoide, for d' others ......... but that is normal, all cannot be perfect, and that I include/understand it on the other hand what I include/understand less, which you a type whom you had recourse tostrong rate of consanguinity in your first marriage in order to fix like, I include/understand, but why still do have recourse to this selection in your recent marriages?? I see that on some that seems to me much better, you vary a little more on your choices of marriage, but why that : ex. phaedra /Blue = 15.82.....% Rubin/Blue = 19.43....% Flash/Issar = 20.50...% Galiba/flash = 16.06....% ........ i decree there because there is much of it thus in come to ask me a question, which is addressed to you as to the other stockbreeders?? Must one hold account of it so much…. my opinion on this question, is that on such a recent race, I find that not careful of the whole, i have can be wrong, but I do not see interest…." or then, your answer is as simple as that??? my pups like and nothing other???? indeed, us let us have at all the same vision of interest of canine breeding Mrs Molnar __________________

12-12-2008, 15:09	#10
martiou07 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,986	why have still recourse to as much consanguinity????? which is interest now that you did find the type of dog wolf which you seek???? after what I include/understand, finally, one should not take account of consanguinity and we can marry import which dog..... you understand ? your opinion with you on consanguinity?? __________________

12-12-2008, 12:51	#1
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	try to find more...because there are !!!!!!

12-12-2008, 12:55	#2
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	and another but important things: every country has got the own breeding rules.....as my country and my klub has got as well...........we have caracter test (shouting, the dog must be touchable,protection work together with owner),other part is the judgment of the dog (exteriour), need two excelent showresults and HD results. Whithout any of them I couldn't get pedigree for the pups...... My klub accept just the hungarian "bonitacio"

12-12-2008, 13:23	#4
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	Fortuna Crying Wolf, Wolfy,Wickey,Ushas Crying Wolf .... and please tell me how many imported dogs are in Slovakia and CzehRep from other countries and are in breeding it is another usless discussion

12-12-2008, 14:50	#6
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	Of course our hd examination is not consist of just the angulation...we have a complete examination form and my ver examined a lot of things such as osition of hip-joins,shape of whirtbone,status of the acetabulum,articular space and last but not least the Norberg measuring. So I think it is complex and complete. About the dark future: believe me don't think that I would be the biggest enemy of this breed. And as this kind of discussion hurt not just me but every owner of my dogs I realy want to finish it! I don't think that I have to justify myself....and guys it would be better to deal with your own things!

12-12-2008, 15:02	#9
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	I don't understand what is your problem exactly????Are the pups from these 4 marriage bad? Ill? Bad HD? Bad caracter?Small??? I strongly must tell you NO!!!!! All of them are healthy and very nice, promote the type what I like!!!!