CW in the UK

[loco]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

And Paul did sell one of his pups to germany. And it would be not nice if this guy will bring this F 1 in csw population.

OK also for here the big "??????" already asked the same "??????" on the Dutchforum ;
Is it possible this one F1 wolfdog that is in Germany can ever come in the CSW breed and have offspring with a pedigree that says it is a CSW ???
If yes, is this legal ???
If yes, is this also possible in other European country's ???
If yes, is this also possible for other breeds ???


Groette Martine.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by loco

OK also for here the big "??????" already asked the same "??????" on the Dutchforum ;
Is it possible this one F1 wolfdog that is in Germany can ever come in the CSW breed and have offspring with a pedigree that says it is a CSW ???
If yes, is this legal ???
If yes, is this also possible in other European country's ???
If yes, is this also possible for other breeds ???


Groette Martine.

Yes to all ??? because of phenotype registration in FCI, which is sometimes good but mostly bad.
If you register the F1 as a CSW his offspring will get normal pedigrees after 4 generations.
And if you look up the discussion about Sangria Passo de Lupo you will find out this is not so far away.

Ina

[loco]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Yes to all ??? because of phenotype registration in FCI, which is sometimes good but mostly bad.
If you register the F1 as a CSW his offspring will get normal pedigrees after 4 generations.
And if you look up the discussion about Sangria Passo de Lupo you will find out this is not so far away.

Ina

But this is possible for just every simple person to do ??
You do not have to come with a lot off good reason to do so ??
And ask to the FCI to justify this as correct ??
And there is also not a commisi to aprove this as correct ??
And Sangria is in the future, a Granddad of a lot off CSW ??

I have heard off using dogs instead of the one who is written on the pedigree .
But never knew this was possible .
It is really absurd , but thanks for your answer .

Groette Martine.

[Nebulosa]

Maybe I can reply about it then our club is even more open and dirty than the italianone

Originally Posted by loco

But this is possible for just every simple person to do ??

Yes, just a simple person can make a "pure breed certified" you only need a look like CzW dog and show it to 3 all rounder judge who sometime snever seen the breed before, if they said "ok" so the dog receive the pure breed certified, and can mate as make registered puppies with special pedigree, here, in red collor then the official is blue one.

You do not have to come with a lot off good reason to do so ??

No, only show the mongrel CzW-look-a-like for 3 all rounder ignorant judges and you will have your pure breed certified.

And ask to the FCI to justify this as correct ??

Difficult.. FCI is just politic as dogshows, only a good way to have your money with the registration and monopolium

And there is also not a commisi to aprove this as correct ??

Sure!! the 3 all rounder noob judge

And Sangria is in the future, a Granddad of a lot off CSW ??

After 3 generation of registered dogs all Sangria and other mix lines will be so consider as the old pure lines for FCI, some uninformed people probably will use without know about all this, some will use for continue such "super" line

I have heard off using dogs instead of the one who is written on the pedigree .
But never knew this was possible .
It is really absurd , but thanks for your answer .

Groette Martine.

That's why by the way I agree with GSD breeders and his non-FCI club conected only with the German GSD club.

[loco]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Maybe I can reply about it then our club is even more open and dirty than the italianone
.

, Maybe they are just all dirty ???
Do you also know where I can read more, about this rule of the FCI ???

Groette Martine.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by loco

, Maybe they are just all dirty ???
Do you also know where I can read more, about this rule of the FCI ???

Groette Martine.

Sorry but I really would like to know also, but, according Passo Del Lupo FCi gave this opportunity for every breed who isn't fixed yet ( that isn't the case of the CzW)

In all the world, the FCI give the possibility (only for some breed not fixed yet) to inseret some new blood for became better.

So, I search on FCI webpage about it, and I found nothing about "Pure breed certified" for "not fixed breeds" then, so far I know actually not fixed breeds yet nor even are recognized by FCI, so, its a nonsense in my sight untill someone proof the contrarie.

If nothing is write there so.. all those dogs are illegal by FCI rules, independant of the rules of the country who do it, but FCI seems to be not more than a expensive office.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Sorry but I really would like to know also, but, according Passo Del Lupo FCi gave this opportunity for every breed who isn't fixed yet ( that isn't the case of the CzW)



So, I search on FCI webpage about it, and I found nothing about "Pure breed certified" for "not fixed breeds" then, so far I know actually not fixed breeds yet nor even are recognized by FCI, so, its a nonsense in my sight untill someone proof the contrarie.

If nothing is write there so.. all those dogs are illegal by FCI rules, independant of the rules of the country who do it, but FCI seems to be not more than a expensive office.

Thank god I hope you are right !!! illegal they are !!!

Best regards / Mikael

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Maybe I can reply about it then our club is even more open and dirty than the italianone

Yes, just a simple person can make a "pure breed certified" you only need a look like CzW dog and show it to 3 all rounder judge who sometime snever seen the breed before, if they said "ok" so the dog receive the pure breed certified, and can mate as make registered puppies with special pedigree, here, in red collor then the official is blue one.

No, only show the mongrel CzW-look-a-like for 3 all rounder ignorant judges and you will have your pure breed certified.


Difficult.. FCI is just politic as dogshows, only a good way to have your money with the registration and monopolium


Sure!! the 3 all rounder noob judge

After 3 generation of registered dogs all Sangria and other mix lines will be so consider as the old pure lines for FCI, some uninformed people probably will use without know about all this, some will use for continue such "super" line


That's why by the way I agree with GSD breeders and his non-FCI club conected only with the German GSD club.

Well there you go,,,,, if this is true as i am sure it could be, then here we have evedence of cross bred CWD with false pedigrees, no different to France,,,,,, WHAT FUTURE HAS THE CWD IF THIS IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE,,,,,,,is this where the new health defects come from? the small CWD, shy and nervous ones with tails tucked up, ones that look like they have greyhounds cross, curly tails, no face mask, very sad,,,,,,,,,,

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Yes to all ??? because of phenotype registration in FCI, which is sometimes good but mostly bad.
If you register the F1 as a CSW his offspring will get normal pedigrees after 4 generations.
And if you look up the discussion about Sangria Passo de Lupo you will find out this is not so far away.

Ina

But is it realy this simple ???

It was hard for Lennart Saarloos and Karel Hartl, way would it be simple now ??? minimum 5 generations from wolf FCI say ! Standard like and supervise breeding by FCI, like the way Rona talk about...

In Sweden you will NOT get your CsV or Saarloos peedigee after a normal mating whitout a DNA test that say that the parents is the parents, I do not se how no one here can register a F1 or a new line of CsW as you say can happen i Germany !!!

But if, way are you just thinking of a F1 from Paul ??? there is more wolf mixt dogs in Germany then one !!! and I do not se how a American Wolfdog x CsV will be CsV standard like

And I do not think FCI or German kennel club is this stupide as you say ???
But I might be wrong ???

Now I se way Christian is angry !!! but way at Paul ??? way not FCI or the German Kennel club ???

Best regards / Mikael

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

But is it realy this simple ???

It was hard for Lennart Saarloos and Karel Hartl, way would it be simple now ??? minimum 5 generations from wolf FCI say ! Standard like and supervise breeding by FCI, like the way Rona talk about...

In Sweden you will NOT get your CsV or Saarloos peedigee after a normal mating whitout a DNA test that say that the parents is the parents, I do not se how no one here can register a F1 or a new line of CsW as you say can happen i Germany !!!

But if, way are you just thinking of a F1 from Paul ??? there is more wolf mixt dogs in Germany then one !!! and I do not se how a American Wolfdog x CsV will be CsV standard like

And I do not think FCI or German kennel club is this stupide as you say ???
But I might be wrong ???

Now I se way Christian is angry !!! but way at Paul ??? way not FCI or the German Kennel club ???

Best regards / Mikael

If you look at my web site you will see that my litter differed the pups that look more wolflike take after the mother, eye colour, rounded ears, but look at pups that follow father, colour as CWD, same eye colour as cwd, same coat colour as CWD, bigger ears as CWD,now if i cross one of the pups that look like father with CWD, then cross again next generation with CWD, i can and would bring the offspring back to look identical to Cwd but with slightly higher content, and i can assure you they would look more like the pure CWD than some dogs now registered as pure CWD on wolfdog.org but as i said before i have no interest in doing this and nor do the people i sell to and breed with in Europe, USA, Ireland,Germany, Holland,France and U.K. we love our wolfdogs and if its of any interest of all the friends i have only myself and one other person owns CWD.if the clubs every decided they did need new blood line for the CWD then if they ask nicely i already have wolfdog bitch f3 bred from Europen wolf which i would glady give to them, it would save them lots of time.......or i can give them use of European wolf,,,,,,,,,,

[Rona]

Originally Posted by solowolf

... if i cross one of the pups that look like father with CWD, then cross again next generation with CWD, i can and would bring the offspring back to look identical to Cwd but with slightly higher content, and i can assure you they would look more like the pure CWD than some dogs now registered as pure CWD on wolfdog.org ....

So what? There is much, much more to CSV BREED than looks!!! A CSW might look more like a wolf or a dog, but it is still a dog. With a hybrid - it might look like a CSV or dog or a wolf, but could inherit a character of a wolf.
Which responisble, honest breeder would sell such a creature to anybody as a dog?

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by solowolf

If you look at my web site you will see that my litter differed the pups that look more wolflike take after the mother, eye colour, rounded ears, but look at pups that follow father, colour as CWD, same eye colour as cwd, same coat colour as CWD, bigger ears as CWD,now if i cross one of the pups that look like father with CWD, then cross again next generation with CWD, i can and would bring the offspring back to look identical to Cwd but with slightly higher content, and i can assure you they would look more like the pure CWD than some dogs now registered as pure CWD on wolfdog.org but as i said before i have no interest in doing this and nor do the people i sell to and breed with in Europe, USA, Ireland,Germany, Holland,France and U.K. we love our wolfdogs and if its of any interest of all the friends i have only myself and one other person owns CWD.if the clubs every decided they did need new blood line for the CWD then if they ask nicely i already have wolfdog bitch f3 bred from Europen wolf which i would glady give to them, it would save them lots of time.......or i can give them use of European wolf,,,,,,,,,,

I think like Rona, CsV is not about the look !!! it is about the work !!!

Paul do you do any work tests like SVP 3 or IPO ???

And whit al do respect I do not think the clubs will ask you, as the have no problem at all to get a European wolf from the zoo. (Prag ?) maybe...

And I think they wont to be 1000% sure of all added wolfbood, and I do not think they will trust a UK breeder or any other breeder neather

I think that if you wont and have the experience you can develop a new breed, but that is a new breed and have nothing to do whit CsV...

And if you do ! Way do you wont more wolfbood ??? I would like to se a new beed whit less as less wolfbood is less problems

And as Nebulosa did say after that post, it can not be done legal on the CsV as it is a fixt breed already, THANK GOD !!! and if somebody do try it, it will be the illegal way...

Good luck whit your NEW breed, Best regards / Mikael

[Rona]

Mikael,
It's not accidental that whenever there is a topic about CSV in the UK it ends up as as a topic about mixbreeding wolves and dogs It seems to me some people are simply obsessed by this idea and CSVs and wolfdog.org are only a cover for getting more publicity for their completely different 'activities'

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

Mikael,
It's not accidental that whenever there is a topic about CSV in the UK it ends up as as a topic about mixbreeding wolves and dogs It seems to me some people are simply obsessed by this idea and CSVs and wolfdog.org are only a cover for getting more publicity for their completely different 'activities'

Yes you are right Rona in 100% !!!
By looking at the topic of history it does sad but true...

Thanks Rona for bringing it up !!!

Therefore I say by by to of topic talk about CsV mixing in the UK topics...

Best regards / Mikael

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by loco

OK also for here the big "??????" already asked the same "??????" on the Dutchforum ;
Is it possible this one F1 wolfdog that is in Germany can ever come in the CSW breed and have offspring with a pedigree that says it is a CSW ???
If yes, is this legal ???
If yes, is this also possible in other European country's ???
If yes, is this also possible for other breeds ???


Groette Martine.

can i just make one thing very clear to all you people who worry about one of my wolfdogs being used in breedings that may be registered as a CWD, forget about it, the people who own these wolfdogs have no interest at all in the CWD or of owning one, if they did they would have purchased one,,, you would think the CWD and SAARLOOS are the only two types of wolfdogs there is,, very wrong people in Europe, USA,Ireland and UK have been breeding wolfdogs for long time, we had wolfdogs in Ireland when i was young boy some 40 yrs ago, so rest assured the people i breed with and for do not and will never be registering or attempting to register anything we breed as a CWD.

[loco]

Originally Posted by solowolf

can i just make one thing very clear to all you people who worry about one of my wolfdogs being used in breedings that may be registered as a CWD

I'm sorry but I do not only worry about your wolfdogpuppy used for breeding in to the breed of CSW.
I worry about al Wolfdogpuppy who can be a risk to the thoroughbred off the CSW.
I just used your WDpuppy only as a example if it was possible to do so ??, because you will not be the only f**l who create Wolfdog's .
And your WDpuppy wil defintly also not be the only one who can be a risk for the thoroughbred of the CSW .

Groette Martine.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by solowolf

Well there you go,,,,, if this is true as i am sure it could be, then here we have evedence of cross bred CWD with false pedigrees, no different to France,

No, its completly different, we are not talking about false pedigrees but about pure breed certified or initial register, have noting false there, only the descendence of those dogs are unknow at the papper, official papper that for be accepted for FCI must have 3 or 5 generation WHIT SHOW TITLES.
So, as you can see the problem is bigger than it, and don't think that it only evolves FCI.
And yes, so far I know you can also meet dogs with pure breed certified in france (or wheathever different name it has), but as all world those dogs are evaluate very low for the breed cause mostly breeds are against it, so, we enter in another problem still more deep.
That's why Mutara have legal pedigree for dogshows now, only can't be in international dogshows so far I know, untill they complet 5 generations.

Originally Posted by Solowolf

WHAT FUTURE HAS THE CWD IF THIS IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE,,,,,,,is this where the new health defects come from? the small CWD, shy and nervous ones with tails tucked up, ones that look like they have greyhounds cross, curly tails, no face mask, very sad,,,,,,,,,,

And who is you for judge or even complain about it?
Sorry paul, but I agree with the others members here and I add the fact that you call yourself a very experienced breeder, so I wonder how could you nor even imagine that your mix sold to europe will not add soon in those blacklist of non pure dogs with CzW pedigree like Mutara, when its so easy make those pure breed papers officially? maybe is that mix castrated? Maybe yes, but I really think that not... if not, you're not than one of those who help to destruct our breed with mixes, no different than Mutara, you only comes here trying to explaine what you had do as if everything was flowers and perfect, pretty utopic.