HD results

Margo · 24-05-2009, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

I have question. Do you belive to all results of HD what are publiced here on wolfdog? What do you mean about central database (gallery) of these fotos? Scanned X-ray fotos? Everybody can see it and measure it.
Is it possible to make good databese from X-ray fotos? Or is it out from our technical posibilites?

Technicalyx there is no problem. But because of the "problems" listed by Nebulosa and Ina it make no sence to do this... It is already pretty hard to get the scanned copies...

But in the new database we can add the possiblity to add also the photo of the hips if you want...

PS. We made something more important - we collect information who made the x-rays. So in the new database you will have information not only about the results but also the name of the vet who checked it.

Mikael · 24-05-2009, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo

PS. We made something more important - we collect information who made the x-rays. So in the new database you will have information not only about the results but also the name of the vet who checked it.

And extra important I think, if it is a vet or a HD committee

Regards / Mikael

Hanka · 25-05-2009, 06:43

Hello Margo, thanks for answer about technical problems. Yes, I had seen some dogs with elbow problems on bonitations. Maybe can be good to open disscussion about elbow rtg for all czech dogs- for breeding.
Ina- I will be in Bratislava too, we can speak about it too.
Daiva- why do you mean I will measure or comment any your fotos? No, I will not

.
I like, the people can write about this problem...I want read some other ideas too......
Yes, everybody can give one this foto (X-ray) to normal gallery too, I know.

wolfin · 25-05-2009, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Daiva- why do you mean I will measure or comment any your fotos? No, I will not

.
.

And I wait for this style reply

thanks Hanka.

p.s. Hanka if You say - "I see dogs with elbow problems in CZ" maybe better make this ED examination for all breed dogs in CZ, in others country this is make, and we know only max ED 1 cann to breed, but better when dog have ED 0.
In this case Not exist good reproductors in CZ (not all, I special check yet data basa)- this dogs not have ED test. And this for me is moore important not who make HD or are rtg skan in galery or not.

wolfin · 25-05-2009, 11:19

Hanka, maybe You know and cann say: why in CZ people and You not make ED when make HD examination in this same thime? I see dogs who have and HD and ED but moore dogs from You kennel or others big kennel not have this. Thanks for reply.

Hanka · 25-05-2009, 11:31

hello Daiva. But every big new thing, condition for breeding, etc. must go over konference of club. And it will not be this year. We have more new things what we want to do. But we can´t do it from one day to second day. Because we have democration and every member must know about new things and every member can vote if he wants it or no. i hope it will be.
It is easy to breed in country where is not club or 5 members in club

. But we have one big club, two parts of it (for two smaller countries in Czech) and everything must "go over" two parts, two comitets, etc.
In this moment is FOR ME important to know , what male I want use for my female. Not only to read "A" and nothing more. I want see X-ray foto, I want see biting....
It was stupid idea to send me some your foto. I want see it (X-ray fotos)for me, for my private meaning. It can be good for every breeder. I don´t know why I can write you something about some your fotos.
I am not certificated expert, so my meaning is only my meaning. Good for me, for my choosing of male.

Hanka · 25-05-2009, 11:36

We have not ED result like condition for breeding in this time. It is why dogs have not it. Maybe some yes.

mijke · 03-06-2009, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

We have not ED result like condition for breeding in this time. It is why dogs have not it. Maybe some yes.

That is the same in Holland. But I’ll speak about this in health committee of the club. Maybe we can suggest owners to make HD and ED in the same time. And later on it is maybe possible to make this a condition for breeding dogs.

About HD judgement in Holland:
Only a group veterinarians who have agreement of the RVBH (Dutch kennelclub who gives pedigrees) can make the official HD X-rays.
Then a committee of specialists of RVBH, judges the x rays and the owner receives the results from them in a certificate.
On the official certificate is not only the End result of A,B,C aso.
But also these marks:

Bone deviation

Norberg value

Insufficient connection or Bad connection

Shape change

An then Final: …. Conform international FCI standard

But the number of the Noberg value is difficult to compare with numbers in other countries!

For example:
In Holland: the number of the Norberg Vallue is count by left hip number + right hip number
In Belgium: the number of Norberg Value is the ranking in % comparing with other dogs of that breed! (when a dogs has NW 30 it means: 29 dogs have worse NW results and 70 dogs have better NW results. So the average NW will be 50)

wolfin · 25-05-2009, 11:51

Quote:

What is expert? I am not veterinar doctor with certificate for HD results, but I belive to my eyes and I am not stupid. I have at home ruler and scribing compass. I am breeder longer time and I know something about it.
OR
It was stupid idea to send me some your foto. I want see it (X-ray fotos)for me, for my private meaning. It can be good for every breeder. I don´t know why I can write you something about some your fotos.

In this moment is FOR ME important to know , what male I want use for my female. Not only to read "A" and nothing more. I want see X-ray foto, I want see biting...

I in Your male reklam see and this - You not believe in CZ bonitation when make bite foto. You think bonitation is not good make for Your male or others if You mas see foto? IF remember good cann see in bonitation card all info about dogs bite and teeth. You not believe in vets, not in bonitation commision. paranoic

If You interesing male for You PERSONELY female - written to this male owners and please PERSONELY about this who You wish.

Quote:

We have not ED result like condition for breeding in this time. It is why dogs have not it. Maybe some yes.
hello Daiva. But every big new thing, condition for breeding, etc. must go over konference of club. And it will not be this year. We have more new things what we want to do. But we can´t do it from one day to second day. Because we have democration and every member must know about new things and every member can vote if he wants it or no. i hope it will be.
It is easy to breed in country where is not club or 5 members in club

. But we have one big club, two parts of it (for two smaller countries in Czech) and everything must "go over" two parts, two comitets, etc.

hmm interesing You and others breeders make this when mas make? if not - yupieee, not make and not important maybe this dog have max ED? only reguls work. sorry...
Who You say yet is only politic "bla bla bla"

when in Lithuania make first HD, ED examination for first wolfdog, we CANN breed without this, but make this and all dog have ED and HD. and ours not important who say club. This same have and Poland - he cann breed without HD ED, but make this ( not all

) and for this not mas exist club or reguls.

Mikael · 25-05-2009, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

It is easy to breed in country where is not club or 5 members in club

Or not...

I do not care for my own part if the new club for SWH/CsV in Sweden will say Yes or No in the question of demanding HD test for CsV, I will do both HD and ED ether way before I breed...

I just hope for the future of the CsV breed in Sweden it will be a demand

I think if you vote Yes like me, way not start where you can make a difference, in your own kennel

.............
To all

Swedens new SWH/CsV club site www.ssck.se made by Kim Storlöpare and Ninni Erlandsson. Please help us whit working photos to are new CsV gallery

Very best regards / Mikael

saschia · 25-05-2009, 16:34

Hi folks,

there is one problem with doing things with your future stud which the local FCI doesn't require - and that is price. As it is not required, only few people want to do it, therefore the demand is low and the prices are high. It is the same with chips in Slovakia - the prices are outrageous. And as I get much lower salary than in most EU and as I cannot sell pups locally for prices like in EU but I have to pay for things almost as much as others in EU I just have to prioritize. So I chipped all my pups, as they were only 3 of them and I wanted to be sure if one gets lost it gets found easier. And I did take X-ray of Frei's elbows, as she was already sleeping and the pictures are not that expensive. But I don't have the official ED results, I just had the vet who X-rayed her look at the pictures and tell me if they are OK so that I can let my dog do crazy things (like climb trees - she does it similar to alpinists climbing rocks). And I don't know any officially good evaluator of ED in Slovakia anyway...

michaelundinaeichhorn · 25-05-2009, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

And extra important I think, if it is a vet or a HD committee

Regards / Mikael

The most important thing is if it is a vet that has a special and repeated training in this work or if it is any vet that can take a x-ray. And if the systhem is that those vets judge some breeds or any breeds because there are differences.

25-05-2009, 11:19	#5
wolfin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Where the wolf lives Posts: 6,095	Hanka, maybe You know and cann say: why in CZ people and You not make ED when make HD examination in this same thime? I see dogs who have and HD and ED but moore dogs from You kennel or others big kennel not have this. Thanks for reply. __________________

25-05-2009, 16:34	#11
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Hi folks, there is one problem with doing things with your future stud which the local FCI doesn't require - and that is price. As it is not required, only few people want to do it, therefore the demand is low and the prices are high. It is the same with chips in Slovakia - the prices are outrageous. And as I get much lower salary than in most EU and as I cannot sell pups locally for prices like in EU but I have to pay for things almost as much as others in EU I just have to prioritize. So I chipped all my pups, as they were only 3 of them and I wanted to be sure if one gets lost it gets found easier. And I did take X-ray of Frei's elbows, as she was already sleeping and the pictures are not that expensive. But I don't have the official ED results, I just had the vet who X-rayed her look at the pictures and tell me if they are OK so that I can let my dog do crazy things (like climb trees - she does it similar to alpinists climbing rocks). And I don't know any officially good evaluator of ED in Slovakia anyway... __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

25-05-2009, 06:43	#3
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Hello Margo, thanks for answer about technical problems. Yes, I had seen some dogs with elbow problems on bonitations. Maybe can be good to open disscussion about elbow rtg for all czech dogs- for breeding. Ina- I will be in Bratislava too, we can speak about it too. Daiva- why do you mean I will measure or comment any your fotos? No, I will not . I like, the people can write about this problem...I want read some other ideas too...... Yes, everybody can give one this foto (X-ray) to normal gallery too, I know.

25-05-2009, 11:31	#6
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	hello Daiva. But every big new thing, condition for breeding, etc. must go over konference of club. And it will not be this year. We have more new things what we want to do. But we can´t do it from one day to second day. Because we have democration and every member must know about new things and every member can vote if he wants it or no. i hope it will be. It is easy to breed in country where is not club or 5 members in club . But we have one big club, two parts of it (for two smaller countries in Czech) and everything must "go over" two parts, two comitets, etc. In this moment is FOR ME important to know , what male I want use for my female. Not only to read "A" and nothing more. I want see X-ray foto, I want see biting.... It was stupid idea to send me some your foto. I want see it (X-ray fotos)for me, for my private meaning. It can be good for every breeder. I don´t know why I can write you something about some your fotos. I am not certificated expert, so my meaning is only my meaning. Good for me, for my choosing of male.

25-05-2009, 11:36	#7
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	We have not ED result like condition for breeding in this time. It is why dogs have not it. Maybe some yes.