Italian bonitations

woland77 · 10-09-2009, 13:08

In Italy it is illegal to threaten the dog to the pole! Is allowed ZTP test, but on this test is without threaten! Reaction of dog when is alone at the pole, is self-defence, and this is normal for 99% of dogs. Shy dog can have self-defence reaction, balanced dog can have self-defence reaction, agressive dog can have self-defence reaction... The mimicry of the dog in self-defense is the same for both the dog's courage, for that balance and the shy. At the pole we can know the self-defence border (very important, self-defence is the first reason of bite), but without threaten, like ZTP.
The pole test like Czech-Slovak bonitation has meaning only in the selection of the military 30 years ago. All test bonitation, Italian too, are insufficient for a real character selection, on a work breed...How many years you have this code selection for character? Where are the working dogs results? Only a few dogs, for great desire of the owners, These results are almost never traceable to the choice of codes of bonitation!
I am convinced that now is the time to end up with these political issues, and is the moment to start with a real character selection for work dog, we need help from other breed, the CZW are very close...on other breed i have seen real result on 3-4 generation, with real test. Is moment to open the eyes!!

martiou07 · 10-09-2009, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by woland77

In Italy it is illegal to threaten the dog to the pole! Is allowed ZTP test, but on this test is without threaten! Reaction of dog when is alone at the pole, is self-defence, and this is normal for 99% of dogs. Shy dog can have self-defence reaction, balanced dog can have self-defence reaction, agressive dog can have self-defence reaction... The mimicry of the dog in self-defense is the same for both the dog's courage, for that balance and the shy. At the pole we can know the self-defence border (very important, self-defence is the first reason of bite), but without threaten, like ZTP.
The pole test like Czech-Slovak bonitation has meaning only in the selection of the military 30 years ago. All test bonitation, Italian too, are insufficient for a real character selection, on a work breed...How many years you have this code selection for character? Where are the working dogs results? Only a few dogs, for great desire of the owners, These results are almost never traceable to the choice of codes of bonitation!
I am convinced that now is the time to end up with these political issues, and is the moment to start with a real character selection for work dog, we need help from other breed, the CZW are very close...on other breed i have seen real result on 3-4 generation, with real test. Is moment to open the eyes!!

is true, as you say it, the test of Italian nature can give to the same result an apprehensive dog or balanced.

That is completely different from the tests Slovaques and Czech, it is well damage which you cannot make these tests in Italy ...... In France, the wolfhound is interdict of discipline of corrosive, the first bonitation in France was a test, the club was a little refractory.
However, they note from now on that these tests are very interesting…

woland77 · 10-09-2009, 13:32

Maybe my english is very bad, i say: "on self-defence all type of dog have result very similar, not truly result". On Italian test self-defence is not tested...with threaten dog alone at pole when can't judge the self-defence border. On ZTP test when can have a result of self-defence border. We must to look result on Dobermann character problem (self-defence, sensibility) about 1980,1990 dogs, are been resolved by pole test of ZTP. I think we need the same on CZW!

Navarre · 10-09-2009, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by woland77

In Italy it is illegal to threaten the dog to the pole!

Sorry Alessio, this is NOT true. Really.

woland77 · 10-09-2009, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navarre

Sorry Alessio, this is NOT true. Really.

Maybe is allowed by normal law, but ENCI not recognized this, i'm sure! Ask to Gianni!

Navarre · 10-09-2009, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by woland77

Maybe is allowed by normal law, but ENCI not recognized this, i'm sure! Ask to Gianni!

Ah, ok!
I read "illegal" so I made a mistake.

For italian club was more easy to request to ENCI torecognize a test that was already recognized, as CAL, I know well, because we were in the club and we made the request!

But if club wants, he can propose (and wait longer for approvation) any specific test.

But I agree with Saschia, italian test IS different, so don't call it "bonitace" and give different code, like the good old "approved" and "not approved".

martiou07 · 10-09-2009, 13:49

in France, the threats on a dog prohibited with corrosive should not also be authorized, but the club does what is necessary so that France evolves/moves by taking account of the practices of the creative countries…

considering the number of wolfhound in your country, the club can make this it is necessary so that you can make the bonitations as in the other countries.

or then, is this voluntary on behalf of the club can be ........???

10-09-2009, 13:49	#7
martiou07 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,986	in France, the threats on a dog prohibited with corrosive should not also be authorized, but the club does what is necessary so that France evolves/moves by taking account of the practices of the creative countries… considering the number of wolfhound in your country, the club can make this it is necessary so that you can make the bonitations as in the other countries. or then, is this voluntary on behalf of the club can be ........??? __________________

10-09-2009, 13:08	#1
woland77 Gran figl de putt Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,638	In Italy it is illegal to threaten the dog to the pole! Is allowed ZTP test, but on this test is without threaten! Reaction of dog when is alone at the pole, is self-defence, and this is normal for 99% of dogs. Shy dog can have self-defence reaction, balanced dog can have self-defence reaction, agressive dog can have self-defence reaction... The mimicry of the dog in self-defense is the same for both the dog's courage, for that balance and the shy. At the pole we can know the self-defence border (very important, self-defence is the first reason of bite), but without threaten, like ZTP. The pole test like Czech-Slovak bonitation has meaning only in the selection of the military 30 years ago. All test bonitation, Italian too, are insufficient for a real character selection, on a work breed...How many years you have this code selection for character? Where are the working dogs results? Only a few dogs, for great desire of the owners, These results are almost never traceable to the choice of codes of bonitation! I am convinced that now is the time to end up with these political issues, and is the moment to start with a real character selection for work dog, we need help from other breed, the CZW are very close...on other breed i have seen real result on 3-4 generation, with real test. Is moment to open the eyes!!

10-09-2009, 13:32	#3
woland77 Gran figl de putt Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,638	Maybe my english is very bad, i say: "on self-defence all type of dog have result very similar, not truly result". On Italian test self-defence is not tested...with threaten dog alone at pole when can't judge the self-defence border. On ZTP test when can have a result of self-defence border. We must to look result on Dobermann character problem (self-defence, sensibility) about 1980,1990 dogs, are been resolved by pole test of ZTP. I think we need the same on CZW!