'Just for fun' bonitation in Osieczna (PL)

[Hanka]

Margo, my english is not so perfect for correct translating from czech to english.
I think is stupid to give on english forum some link of czech text without translating, if somebody wants to tell something to english speaking people......

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Google translator is not very good but as far as I did understand was the excuse for the step to do this:
""Board stopt delegation of Ing. Monika Soukupova by valuation of aktions, they are organisate by KCHCSV ..."
"Výbor pozastavuje delegace Ing. Moniky Soukupové při posuzování akcí pořádaných KCHČSV..."
Because the step was taken thinking that official Czech Club forms were used for a not official Polish bonitation. After the Club realised that the forms weren´t given to the owners of the dog but only used privately by the judge there was no reason for this step any longer.

This doesn´t change anything for the discussion about this bonitation itself and doesn´t say anything about it´s value.

Was this right?

Ina

[Rona]

Guys, it seems to me that Monika DOES NOT UNDERSTAND the nature of your concerns.
Maybe I'll try to put it clearly so that she and all who got lost in all the arguments could follow:

1. We all know that in the countries of origin bonitation is a breeding requirement, so all dogs that go into breeding MUST have it.

2. In many other coutries bonitation is not required for breeding. (e.g. Poland) This means that in such countries breeders do not HAVE TO bonitate their dogs, but MAY if the wish.

3. Bonitations can be organized anywhere: Roudnice, Jevisovice, Późna, Osieczna, etc. etc. provided the organizors have registered the event in the Czech or Slovak Club and the club delegated bonitation commission - three people with specific rights granted by the Club. This means that place does not matter, only the formalities.

4. This also means that the comission brings oficial boniation cards, stamps, etc. etc with them and the board have rights to sign the pedigrees of the dogs and the results are published in the official Club documents.

4. In that case, if the requirements and formalities are met, any Czech or Slovakian wolfdog can be taken by his/her owner to any of these registered bonitations (even if the boniation takes place in Kozia Wólka or on the Moon), the dog can be oficially bonitated, its code is put into his pedigree document and recognized by the breeding commission in the country he comes from, i.e. the Czech Republic or Slovakia.

5. In Późna I saw Czech and and Slovakian wolfdogs being bonitated and I heard their codes appreard in the official Club documents/webpage.

Now, my question to Monika and others is: if any Czech or Slovakian wolfdog took part in the boniatation in Osieczna would it be possible to put his code into his/her pedigree and would it be recognized by the Czech or Slovakian breeding commission?

To me this is the true validation of the bonitation, otherwise - it's a social event and I see not reason why anybody should insist on calling it boniation or making so much fuss around it as it has been done here.

[Hanka]

Yes Ina, this sentence was about czech club forms used for not czech club bonitation. You are right.

[Monika]

I think Hana understand Czech very well and she understand perfectly what si writen there!
all text from " Alexa " Mr. Skoupý: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...70959&langid=1

some important part:
KCHČSV v ČR bere na vědomí zadané bonitační kódy (kopie bonitačních karet byly českému klubu předány) jako kteroukoliv jinou informaci z bonitace v zahraničí (tzn. veškeré dříve pořádané bonitace v zahraničí, které nepořádal KCHČSV v ČR, což byla pouze bonitace v italské Pavii 2008 ).
Kdokoliv má právo uspořádat bonitaci bez toho, aniž by se na to ptal českého nebo slovenského klubu. Pokud by na takovou bonitaci však jel např. český majitel se svým psem, nebude mu tato bonitace uznána pro chovnost v ČR, pokud nebyla přímo českým klubem pořádána (což je tento případ). KCHČSV uznává pro zařazení mezi chovné jedince v ČR u psů v majetku osob žijících v ČR pouze bonitace pořádané českým klubem.

English:

KCHČSV in CR notes entered bonitacion code (copy Breeding cards (from Osiezna) were sent to the Bohemian Club) as any other information from the abroad bonitacion (ie any previous bonitacion held abroad no organized KCHČSV in the CR, which was only in Pavia, Italy 2008 ).

Everyone has the right to organize Bonitation, without being asked to Czech or Slovak Club. If would go on Bonitation eg. Czech owner with his dog, he shall not be recognized for the breeding in the CR, if not directly organized by the Czech club (which is the case). KCHČSV recognized for the Czech breeding and Czech owners living in CZ with dogs, only the bonitacion organized by the Czech club!

Why is so difficult understand???
All foreign bonitacion are for Czech Club on same level (except bonitacion in Pavia - Italy - this could pass Czech owners living in CZ ) and isn ´t important if is Judge: Bognarová, Šimáčková, Jedlička, Dóra, Soukupová or Nesvadba (Swizerland)....or somebody else!

" Exception " has Slovakian bonitacion in Slovak, only - for Czech owners.
They can pass exterier and all measurement on Slovakia BUT for character test must to go to CR! Slovakien character test no accepted Czech Club!


Is so difficult accept this wiew?

...and if we are in bonitacion...why the some italy dogs has in database - only " X " instead bonitacion code? Because admin wants?? He says this bonitacion is no right for me? It is really stupid opinion. Is always better to have italy or slovak or swiss bonitacion than - nothing!

Judgement of exterier is same, measurement is same and character test? Never can be same. Some coutries has problem to lern " attact " to person and they have problems with this part of bonitacion. Train dog never. For me isn ´t problem when Clubs modificate - transfer character test. Any bureacracy belonging to the breeding of dogs! And Nobody has a patent on the reason.
Test must be properly constructed so Judge could to make correct judgement of impulses (the referee excitement ) and depresion. So he could to say if the dog is melancholic, choleric, sanguine or flegmatic - general.

Sorry for my English.

Monika

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

As far as I remember was the question after what rules this bonitation was made and who were the members of the comission not if anybody could make one anywhere in the world.

Ina

[Hanka]

Yes, I understand czech of course, but maybe you can´t read what I wrote.....

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

As far as I remember was the question after what rules this bonitation was made and who were the members of the comission not if anybody could make one anywhere in the world.

You know the problem with Monika: she has HUGE problems to answer SIMPLY questions... On the polish version I asked her three times about the rules for the bonitation in Osieczna and people who were in the breeding comittee... NO ANSWER...

Typical - she never answer any problematic questions...

What she is promoting at the moment is:
if you have a friend who is FCI judge for the group 1. just invite him/her for a beer and ask to sing some papers. Ask him to measure the dog (don't worry if the measurements will be wrong - nobody care for it), make some character test (it must be not a proffesional one). You do not need any official cards - prepare you own... Write ANYTHING on the papers and remember - you can write the best codes you want.... You can also add some centimetres of height to have the code "better looking"... And remember - all dogs can get perfect notes. Do not care for the faults...

And according the the FCI judge, Monika Soukupova, such bonitation will be valid... I know for everybody who has any idea about the goal of bonitation this what suggest Monika is simply TRASH. But for her, JUDGE, BREEDER, CZW EXPERT it is valid, great and professinal....

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

Guys, it seems to me that Monika DOES NOT UNDERSTAND the nature of your concerns.
Maybe I'll try to put it clearly so that she and all who got lost in all the arguments could follow:

1. We all know that in the countries of origin bonitation is a breeding requirement, so all dogs that go into breeding MUST have it.

2. In many other coutries bonitation is not required for breeding. (e.g. Poland) This means that in such countries breeders do not HAVE TO bonitate their dogs, but MAY if the wish.

3. Bonitations can be organized anywhere: Roudnice, Jevisovice, Późna, Osieczna, etc. etc. provided the organizors have registered the event in the Czech or Slovak Club and the club delegated bonitation commission - three people with specific rights granted by the Club. This means that place does not matter, only the formalities.

4. This also means that the comission brings oficial boniation cards, stamps, etc. etc with them and the board have rights to sign the pedigrees of the dogs and the results are published in the official Club documents.

4. In that case, if the requirements and formalities are met, any Czech or Slovakian wolfdog can be taken by his/her owner to any of these registered bonitations (even if the boniation takes place in Kozia Wólka or on the Moon), the dog can be oficially bonitated, its code is put into his pedigree document and recognized by the breeding commission in the country he comes from, i.e. the Czech Republic or Slovakia.

5. In Późna I saw Czech and and Slovakian wolfdogs being bonitated and I heard their codes appreard in the official Club documents/webpage.

Now, my question to Monika and others is: if any Czech or Slovakian wolfdog took part in the boniatation in Osieczna would it be possible to put his code into his/her pedigree and would it be recognized by the Czech or Slovakian breeding commission?

To me this is the true validation of the bonitation, otherwise - it's a social event and I see not reason why anybody should insist on calling it boniation or making so much fuss around it as it has been done here.

Thanks I was totally lost

And yes I agree, official Bonitation has a 100% value, social events not !!!

Very best regards / Mikael