AKC lowering registration numbers for full recognition from FSS?

yukidomari · 20-03-2010, 14:06

I'm torn on whether I want the AKC to fully recognize the CSV, too.

With recognition you do get the show crowd but worse than that, the publicity so that your dog owner who are not equipped to own Chihuahuas would also like to own a CSV.

It would be nice if a strong breed club could control this, but the AKC has been known to do things like, encourage a breed club split and then take as the 'official breed club' another club.

See Cavalier King Charles Spaniel's 2 clubs - The parent club repeatedly declined AKC's invite to join, so AKC picked as the 'parent' club, a breakaway club and recognized the breed anyway. This worries me as obviously the AKC can also choose a club that has its ethics and interests elsewhere (show lines only, less stringent rules, etc).

The AKC makes its money off of litter registration.. it has even run ads with Hunte Corp, an infamous puppy mill broker here in the USA. Thousands of Hunte's puppies in pet stores are implicitly endorsed by the AKC because they are registered.. and you know for the average pet owner, 'AKC' is obviously a stamp of quality. AKC KNOWS this and remains silent. There are other breed clubs in which you could report this type of activity.. not have the breed club itself do this..

For that reason while I agree it lends legitimacy, there are so many things about the AKC that is just not commendable. It's only a registry but its influence and power can't be taken lightly.

I know this is a CSV forum but owners of 'real' working dogs - dogs still actively used for work - like the Catahoula Leopard Dog and the Russian Ovcharka - people with those dogs, and I know quite a few, felt like crying when they heard that the AKC wanted to recognize it.

In my humble opinion getting a breed INTO the AKC is the easier part than staying out of the AKC.

draggar · 20-03-2010, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

The AKC makes its money off of litter registration.. it has even run ads with Hunte Corp, an infamous puppy mill broker here in the USA. Thousands of Hunte's puppies in pet stores are implicitly endorsed by the AKC because they are registered.. and you know for the average pet owner, 'AKC' is obviously a stamp of quality. AKC KNOWS this and remains silent. There are other breed clubs in which you could report this type of activity.. not have the breed club itself do this..

For that reason while I agree it lends legitimacy, there are so many things about the AKC that is just not commendable. It's only a registry but its influence and power can't be taken lightly.

There are a lot of issues with getting full recognition with the AKC (plus you bring up a great point about puppy mills etc.. - especially with their (recently removed) "Register 10 litters, get the 11th for $1" (roughly between October of 2009 and June of 2010).

Don't worry - I have several issues with the AKC (go look up the real reason why Fred Lanting was fired / quit as an AKC judge). I'm not here to push one way or the other (which is why you may see me playing devil's advocate a lot). I know Luna will never see the inside of an AKC conformation ring and I'm fine with that but I am happy to see that she will be able to compete in obedience, tracking, herding, and whatever else she seems to enjoy. (I'd be happier if she liked to cuddle, though!).

AMERICANI · 21-03-2010, 12:10

I am in a tough spot as well. A large number of medical issues link back to AKC policies and requirements. However, as in Marcy's case, when something happens and the dog warden shows up at your door, what else do we have to present as legitimate American documentation? This worries me. Next, I am still in Italy. Do my dogs need to be on American soil to register?

draggar · 21-03-2010, 16:45

We've never had a dog warden / animal control come to our home unless we called them.

As for AKC registration - the advantages of this is that you'll be able to show your dog in AKC events. CsVs are in the "foundation stock services" meaning they can be shown in any event except conformation (beauty contest). We can compete (and obtain titles) in agility, herding, working sport, obedience, etc..

If you don't plan on coming to the USA and competing in these events, then there is no need to.

GalomyOak · 21-03-2010, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

I am in a tough spot as well. A large number of medical issues link back to AKC policies and requirements. However, as in Marcy's case, when something happens and the dog warden shows up at your door, what else do we have to present as legitimate American documentation? This worries me. Next, I am still in Italy. Do my dogs need to be on American soil to register?

Haha, technically, I did call the dog warden...and pissed the neighbor off, so he sought revenge... FSS papers have a big AKC logo on them, they are enough. Jason, when overseas for military, do you have a US residence as well? If so, I am 99% sure AKC will accept that. If not, they might still accept it, most agencies make exceptions for military.

AMERICANI · 21-03-2010, 21:49

OH, so as long as we stay FSS and not fully AKC accepted, a lot of the mentioned problems won't matter?? I am coming back soon, and I do intend on competing! I am still waiting on Soselo's (Garm's) and Elsa's FCI pedigrees, so it may be a while... Thank you all. Jason

AMERICANI · 21-03-2010, 21:50

OH, so as long as we stay FSS and not fully AKC accepted, a lot of the mentioned problems won't matter?? I am coming back soon, and I do intend on competing! I am still waiting on Soselo's and Elsa's FCI pedigrees, so it may be a while... Thank you all. Jason

AMERICANI · 21-03-2010, 21:52

oh the redundancy.... You cant delete posts LOL

draggar · 24-03-2010, 14:15

Due to two recent realizations that makes AKC look like they support puppy mills, I see no need to rush to get our breed fully recognizerd by AKC.

IMO now, AKC papers are as reliable as APRI (well, at least with AKC we know it's a dog).

We should push for UKC and maybe even get a better presence with UKC here in the US. I know UKC isn't perfect but they're the lesser of the evils out there. Maybe we could even have shows similar to Sieger style shows with GSDs.

yukidomari · 24-03-2010, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by draggar

Due to two recent realizations that makes AKC look like they support puppy mills, I see no need to rush to get our breed fully recognizerd by AKC.

IMO now, AKC papers are as reliable as APRI (well, at least with AKC we know it's a dog).

We should push for UKC and maybe even get a better presence with UKC here in the US. I know UKC isn't perfect but they're the lesser of the evils out there. Maybe we could even have shows similar to Sieger style shows with GSDs.

I like the UKC - not perfect, as you say.. but I like that it seems to be less of a popularity contest in recognizing breeds and the multitude of working titles available.

Does UKC recognition alone not count for anything? Last I checked, most people didn't know the difference between the AKC or the Continental KC..

20-03-2010, 14:06	#1
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	I'm torn on whether I want the AKC to fully recognize the CSV, too. With recognition you do get the show crowd but worse than that, the publicity so that your dog owner who are not equipped to own Chihuahuas would also like to own a CSV. It would be nice if a strong breed club could control this, but the AKC has been known to do things like, encourage a breed club split and then take as the 'official breed club' another club. See Cavalier King Charles Spaniel's 2 clubs - The parent club repeatedly declined AKC's invite to join, so AKC picked as the 'parent' club, a breakaway club and recognized the breed anyway. This worries me as obviously the AKC can also choose a club that has its ethics and interests elsewhere (show lines only, less stringent rules, etc). The AKC makes its money off of litter registration.. it has even run ads with Hunte Corp, an infamous puppy mill broker here in the USA. Thousands of Hunte's puppies in pet stores are implicitly endorsed by the AKC because they are registered.. and you know for the average pet owner, 'AKC' is obviously a stamp of quality. AKC KNOWS this and remains silent. There are other breed clubs in which you could report this type of activity.. not have the breed club itself do this.. For that reason while I agree it lends legitimacy, there are so many things about the AKC that is just not commendable. It's only a registry but its influence and power can't be taken lightly. I know this is a CSV forum but owners of 'real' working dogs - dogs still actively used for work - like the Catahoula Leopard Dog and the Russian Ovcharka - people with those dogs, and I know quite a few, felt like crying when they heard that the AKC wanted to recognize it. In my humble opinion getting a breed INTO the AKC is the easier part than staying out of the AKC. Last edited by yukidomari; 20-03-2010 at 14:09.

21-03-2010, 12:10	#3
AMERICANI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 111	AKC Registration I am in a tough spot as well. A large number of medical issues link back to AKC policies and requirements. However, as in Marcy's case, when something happens and the dog warden shows up at your door, what else do we have to present as legitimate American documentation? This worries me. Next, I am still in Italy. Do my dogs need to be on American soil to register?

21-03-2010, 16:45	#4
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	We've never had a dog warden / animal control come to our home unless we called them. As for AKC registration - the advantages of this is that you'll be able to show your dog in AKC events. CsVs are in the "foundation stock services" meaning they can be shown in any event except conformation (beauty contest). We can compete (and obtain titles) in agility, herding, working sport, obedience, etc.. If you don't plan on coming to the USA and competing in these events, then there is no need to. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

21-03-2010, 21:49	#6
AMERICANI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 111	AKC Registration OH, so as long as we stay FSS and not fully AKC accepted, a lot of the mentioned problems won't matter?? I am coming back soon, and I do intend on competing! I am still waiting on Soselo's (Garm's) and Elsa's FCI pedigrees, so it may be a while... Thank you all. Jason Last edited by AMERICANI; 21-03-2010 at 21:55.

21-03-2010, 21:50	#7
AMERICANI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 111	AKC Registration OH, so as long as we stay FSS and not fully AKC accepted, a lot of the mentioned problems won't matter?? I am coming back soon, and I do intend on competing! I am still waiting on Soselo's and Elsa's FCI pedigrees, so it may be a while... Thank you all. Jason

21-03-2010, 21:52	#8
AMERICANI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 111	AKC Registration oh the redundancy.... You cant delete posts LOL Last edited by AMERICANI; 21-03-2010 at 21:58.

24-03-2010, 14:15	#9
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	Due to two recent realizations that makes AKC look like they support puppy mills, I see no need to rush to get our breed fully recognizerd by AKC. IMO now, AKC papers are as reliable as APRI (well, at least with AKC we know it's a dog). We should push for UKC and maybe even get a better presence with UKC here in the US. I know UKC isn't perfect but they're the lesser of the evils out there. Maybe we could even have shows similar to Sieger style shows with GSDs. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors