Can of Worms: Update on Mutara dogs?

[valentina]

I'm agree with sciamalaia

how many dogs (that the owner write here in wolfdog from many countries) are certainly mutara? how we can to have a confirmation?

what we can to do (really) for the preservation of the breed?

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by valentina

I'm agree with sciamalaia

how many dogs (that the owner write here in wolfdog from many countries) are certainly mutara? how we can to have a confirmation?

what we can to do (really) for the preservation of the breed?

Original Mutaras :
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/5571
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/5535
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/5570

And all their offsprings.

The blood od Mutaras is today just in dogs from kennels :
Mutara
Passo del Lupo
Foresta Incantata

[elf]

If it really become one day a big deal (what I doubt), you can likely have DNA test.
mtDNA are inherited from mother, so checking this against SNP or microsatellite specific to arctic wolf would I guess do the trick.

[sciamalaia]

If it really become one day a big deal (what I doubt)

Maybe it is not so clear how the situation is in Italy... Everyone can breed, everyone who has a female, with or without HD and the most common health test, can do a litter, every male can be used. At the end of the game every litter can have valid pedigree. Now we have: Audrey, Fenrir, Ozzy, Ave, Sakim, Sangria, Sanka the Q litter of 9 puppies (now 17 months old). So, just in Italy we have 16 mutaras.. They all can be Stud and Bitch. And all the litter from Ozzy and Q-PdL will have a valid Csw pedigree. Do you agree with me that it is better to follow their offsprings and don't lose them in the sea of Italian Csw?

you can likely have DNA test

That is not exact, in Italy the DNA of a dog is property of the owner, you can not use it without the permission of the owner.. So a "dishonest" breeder will never give the permission..

Also, two of the three kennels quoted by Pavel are part of the Italian Csw Club, one of them is the bigger kennel in Italy, so our Club and ENCI will never go against it. They will never allow a DNA test to find the Hybrid.

My point is that the only weapon you have to avoid them is to know them.. and WD is the best tool you can use. If you mark them with a warning you will lose them, they will be too much to follow without a database. Instead of that warning, if you write something like: they have a canadian wolf in their pedigree in the X generation, I think it will be different.

By the way, Lunas Mom, in Italy there are a lot of breeders that have nothing to do with mutaras.. if in the future you will have an Italian pup you can ask them. And of course you can ask also Foresta Incantata and Passo del Lupo, nobody wants to sell you a mutara if you don't ask for it..

[AMERICANI]

Perhaps I misread a post... Please help me with this one. Was it being said that all Passo Del Lupo have Mutara blood or just some? I read earlier in another thread about Passo Del Lupo introducing another wolf into the breed.. Is this the same issue we are discussing or has it happened more than once? My questions (as I have reread them to myself) seem odd and a little stupid, but I want the most precise information possible and sometimes language barriers become a challenging burden. Thanks, Jason Young

[Gypsy Wolf]

How about we ask the FCI, ENCI, etc. to put a special letter into the registration numbers of all the mutaras and their offspring? That way they can do their thing, still be CsVs, but breeders will know their heritage so that they can make an informed decision on using them and buyers will also know what they are getting?
I know here in the U.S., there was an outcry from the Dobermann club about registering "white" (Albino) Dobermanns, they were concerned about the genes being mixed into the general population, so they designated all of the "white" Dobermanns and their offspring that carry the gene with a "Z" in their registration number. That way those who wanted a white Dobe in their breeding program or as a pet could find what they wanted but the Dobermann people who wanted to prevent it from getting into their breeding program could make sure they did.
No fighting, no competition, no arguments. Just the ability to know what your pedigree has in it...

[hanninadina]

Lunas Mom, as Sciamalaia wrote, they do not sell Mutara pups to everyone. The buyers are chosen people! So your concerns are not necessary. There are enough people who have wolfdogs. And there are enough people who want a F 3 wolfdog as well, no matter, if pure csw or not. If you see discussion in german forum - here it did not start really -, the health problems with dm and zw are much more important. And what Nanouk wrote to this is completely right. Health is more important than blood lines, this is my point of view.

Christian

[sciamalaia]

Perhaps I misread a post... Please help me with this one. Was it being said that all Passo Del Lupo have Mutara blood or just some? I read earlier in another thread about Passo Del Lupo introducing another wolf into the breed.. Is this the same issue we are discussing or has it happened more than once? My questions (as I have reread them to myself) seem odd and a little stupid, but I want the most precise information possible and sometimes language barriers become a challenging burden. Thanks, Jason Young

I did NOT say that all PdL have Mutara blood! I did say that if you want an Italian pup you can ask them (if you like! This is not propaganda for PdL), nobody wants to sell a mutara to someone who doesn't look for a mutara! I hope it is more understandable.. My english is not my italian but I thought it was clear too... If you have any other doubt please ask...