Tamaskan Dogs..

Gypsy Wolf · 6 July 2010, 22:46

Sounds like Dutch Malinois...

Joswolf · 8 July 2010, 17:23

Sorry but Whiteang is Valco but is no wolf. This is a picture and everyone can see that its no wolf.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...1.jpg?download
Jos

yukidomari · 8 July 2010, 17:37

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Joswolf

Sorry but Whiteang is Valco but is no wolf. This is a picture and everyone can see that its no wolf.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...1.jpg?download
Jos

Sorry, my mistype - Whitefang is not a wolf, he is a F1 wolfdog out of an Alaskan Tundra/Interior wolf sire and Sibe mother.

An Alaskan Tundra wolf looks like this:

http://longhairedhippy.livejournal.com/387530.html

(go half way down the page).

And this:
flickr.com/photos/10755025@N06/3294104949/

Tazer · 12 July 2010, 21:42

I'd have an easier time believing the 'no wolf tamaskan' site or what ever its called, if it wasn't for the fact that the new aatu tamaskan breeders who continuously bang on about all of this, didn't appear to be such hypocrits.

They say high content wolfdogs and csvs were used in the creation of the original tamaskan, and by the way they write, it would appear that that is an issue for them so, one has to ask if indeed their claim is true, and they indeed have an issue with it, then why on Earth are they contacting breeders of csvs to see if they can use a male for stud, there was also mention of them looking at using the dogs bred by noble paws, I think someone posted a link to their site earlier on here. Are those dogs not wolfdogs, or at least, they're claimed to be, so again, if wolfdog in the tamaskan is an issue, then why are they using wolfdog or planning to, in their new aatu tamaskan?

They say, that the original tamaskan is plagued with health issues, and that they're going to fix the problems in their new breed. However, one of their founder studs is a monorchid, one founder bitch is from lines known to produce epalepsy, the first litter of aatu tamaskan born in the USA was from a stud without full health test results, and thats if he is indeed the sire, there is some speculation as to that.

Just as a point of interest, their new breed is called the aatu tamaskan yes, tamaskan, you know the breed they dedicate sites to slagging off, well the original breed is so bad that they'd like to keep the name association...If it was me, and the breed was as bad as they claimed with regards to health etc, then I'd want to distance myself as much as possible from that wouldn't you. Just to add to it, they seem fond of dropping the aatu part of their new breeds name, and refer to them as tamaskans, of course, that isn't going to cause confusion is it?.

Now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is.

P.s.
Where is the solid proof of the dna evidence that is being claimed. I was also under the impression that there wasn't a test for wolf content, as both domestic dog and grey wolf dna is so similar, that it is near impossible to tell by a dna test if a dog does contain recent wolf content or not. Apologies if that is wrong, it has been a while since I looked into the subject, so science may have progressed since then.

Taz

hanninadina · 13 July 2010, 15:03

You are right, there is no test, how much wolfconten is inside. I am in contact with Bob Wayne who is worldst best genetic in wolves.

Sure it is true there is some wolfblood from csw inside Tamaskan. To be honest, for me it is not a breed yet. There are people mixing everything together with all they are maybe getting. I had an question too, if they could use my male csw. And of course they did even ask noblepawz. But Sky would never allow mating one of her dogs such Mixdogs. This shows me only that these people do know nothing about wolfdogs. And when you say that they are using even "ill" dogs so no one should buy one. I wrote already that there are enough lines of wolfish looking csw which behave more family like and less working like. I would really much prefer.

Christian

Joswolf · 13 July 2010, 18:48

I believe no wolfdogs were used in the creation of the original tamaskan but lateron couse of health and inbreeding risk looked for new blood. I also believe now they wouldn't want an CWD any more couse they are bred for using agression. They could be interested in Saarloos. But i listened to breeder who likes sleddogs and others who want an pet or family-dog. But they need to look like wolf. Funny is the wolf look alike claims now wolf and roomers say its part wolf and AWD claim 70-98% are mostly not really like a wolf but behave much like a dog. You just can't do it wright.
Jos

Rona · 13 July 2010, 19:53

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Joswolf

I also believe now they wouldn't want an CWD any more couse they are bred for using agression.
Jos

Could you explain, please?

Joswolf · 13 July 2010, 20:34

Explain what? Why i believe this. Thats what i heard from several Tamaskan owners. Or do you mean explain why i believe a CWD is more agressive then a Saarloos.
Jos

Rona · 13 July 2010, 22:22

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Joswolf

.... explain why i believe a CWD is more agressive then a Saarloos.

Explain what you understand by "CWD are bred for using agression".
CSVs aren't lambs, but the word "agression" has lots of meanings. I was just wondering what you had in mind. I know breeds far more agressive than CSVs

Mikael · 14 July 2010, 00:02

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door Joswolf

I believe no wolfdogs were used in the creation of the original tamaskan but later on couse of health and inbreeding risk looked for new blood. I also believe now they wouldn't want an CWD any more couse they are bred for using agression.

Agression

Lollllllll

Quote from CsV FCI Standard

Citaat:

ELIMINATING FAULTS: No 1, Aggresive or overly shy.

Best regards / Mikael

GalomyOak · 14 July 2010, 00:17

Italian bred CSVs...the most aggressive of all!

http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...08582197030818
http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...08667466575714

Mikael · 14 July 2010, 07:11

Citaat:

Oorspronkelijk geplaatst door GalomyOak

Italian bred CSVs...the most aggressive of all!

http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...08582197030818
http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...08667466575714

Oooooooo, so so cute

... But where is the mother

???

PS, Yes Bongo is very good example of agressive CsV

DS.

Best regards / Mikael

Tazer · 13 July 2010, 18:34

Agree, I'd much rather have a csv too, and hopefuly I will do one day.

I would also agree that they're more of a type than a breed, like the rest of the wolf lookalikes. However, when compaired to those other lookalikes they do appear to produce more consistancey in their breeding.

Here in the uk we've got all the different types of lookalikes. They all started off with the same foundation stock, but at various times people broke away from the founder clubs, set up their own, mixed different breeds into their lines, changed the name, and then again people from those new groups broke off taking their dogs and starting the process all over again. So at present we've got the:

Northern inuit dog. Consisting of Siberian huskie, Alaskan malamute possibly, gsd, some random imported mixes from the USA of unknown parentage, some claim wolf or high content wolfdog, there was even a thought that they could have been mastiff added in as well. But basicly, people don't really know, and when you consider that the type is only around 20 years old, and one of the founder breeders is still very much living, you'd think there wouldn't be such confusion. Thats before we even get to the health problems, level of inbreeding, pedigrees that aren't worth the paper they're written on, lack of breeding ethics, etc etc. Basicly, its all one great big mess.

British inuit dog/british wolfdog. Northern inuit with the addition of csv or swh.

Timbre dog. As far as I'm aware, thats basicly anything that looks remotely wolf like in appearance.

Utonagan. Northern inuit with the addition of collie, not sure if anything else was added.

British utonagan. New break away group from the utonagan. Utonagan with the addition of the original founder breeds, siberian huskie, alaskan malamute, gsd, northern inuit, though they say they're not going to add collie again. They're also considering other breeds but don't know what they are, maybe bsd.

Tamaskan. Don't suppose I need to explain that one.

Aatu tamaskan. Refer to earlier post.

Taz

Gypsy Wolf · 13 July 2010, 18:46

Well, again, it'll be buyers that dictate the market. People may breed the dogs, but if there are no buyers, they will not continue...
I would think a Saarloos would fit the bill if someone wanted a wolfy dog with a soft temperament and a predictable "look"... plus, then they could actually DO stuff with their dog as it is a "breed" and not just something someone cooked up.
I would bet that part of the reason there is an interest in a wolfy looking dog with no wolfy "ness" is the shy behavior. Most people want a friendly "wolf" - according to what I have heard, many Saarloos are shy... perhaps part of why they are not as sought after? And CsVs do not make the best pets for the average person...

12 July 2010, 21:42	#4
Tazer Junior Member Geregistreerd: 9 July 2010 Berichten: 77	I'd have an easier time believing the 'no wolf tamaskan' site or what ever its called, if it wasn't for the fact that the new aatu tamaskan breeders who continuously bang on about all of this, didn't appear to be such hypocrits. They say high content wolfdogs and csvs were used in the creation of the original tamaskan, and by the way they write, it would appear that that is an issue for them so, one has to ask if indeed their claim is true, and they indeed have an issue with it, then why on Earth are they contacting breeders of csvs to see if they can use a male for stud, there was also mention of them looking at using the dogs bred by noble paws, I think someone posted a link to their site earlier on here. Are those dogs not wolfdogs, or at least, they're claimed to be, so again, if wolfdog in the tamaskan is an issue, then why are they using wolfdog or planning to, in their new aatu tamaskan? They say, that the original tamaskan is plagued with health issues, and that they're going to fix the problems in their new breed. However, one of their founder studs is a monorchid, one founder bitch is from lines known to produce epalepsy, the first litter of aatu tamaskan born in the USA was from a stud without full health test results, and thats if he is indeed the sire, there is some speculation as to that. Just as a point of interest, their new breed is called the aatu tamaskan yes, tamaskan, you know the breed they dedicate sites to slagging off, well the original breed is so bad that they'd like to keep the name association...If it was me, and the breed was as bad as they claimed with regards to health etc, then I'd want to distance myself as much as possible from that wouldn't you. Just to add to it, they seem fond of dropping the aatu part of their new breeds name, and refer to them as tamaskans, of course, that isn't going to cause confusion is it?. Now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is. P.s. Where is the solid proof of the dna evidence that is being claimed. I was also under the impression that there wasn't a test for wolf content, as both domestic dog and grey wolf dna is so similar, that it is near impossible to tell by a dna test if a dog does contain recent wolf content or not. Apologies if that is wrong, it has been a while since I looked into the subject, so science may have progressed since then. Taz __________________ Never argue with idiots. they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

13 July 2010, 18:48	#6
Joswolf Member Geregistreerd: 8 June 2006 Berichten: 757	I believe no wolfdogs were used in the creation of the original tamaskan but lateron couse of health and inbreeding risk looked for new blood. I also believe now they wouldn't want an CWD any more couse they are bred for using agression. They could be interested in Saarloos. But i listened to breeder who likes sleddogs and others who want an pet or family-dog. But they need to look like wolf. Funny is the wolf look alike claims now wolf and roomers say its part wolf and AWD claim 70-98% are mostly not really like a wolf but behave much like a dog. You just can't do it wright. Jos Laatst gewijzigd door Joswolf; 13 July 2010 om 18:49 Reden: forotten w

14 July 2010, 00:17	#11
GalomyOak Howling Member Geregistreerd: 14 June 2007 Locatie: Colorado Berichten: 436	Italian bred CSVs...the most aggressive of all! http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...08582197030818 http://picasaweb.google.com/galomyoa...08667466575714 __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com

13 July 2010, 18:34	#13
Tazer Junior Member Geregistreerd: 9 July 2010 Berichten: 77	Agree, I'd much rather have a csv too, and hopefuly I will do one day. I would also agree that they're more of a type than a breed, like the rest of the wolf lookalikes. However, when compaired to those other lookalikes they do appear to produce more consistancey in their breeding. Here in the uk we've got all the different types of lookalikes. They all started off with the same foundation stock, but at various times people broke away from the founder clubs, set up their own, mixed different breeds into their lines, changed the name, and then again people from those new groups broke off taking their dogs and starting the process all over again. So at present we've got the: Northern inuit dog. Consisting of Siberian huskie, Alaskan malamute possibly, gsd, some random imported mixes from the USA of unknown parentage, some claim wolf or high content wolfdog, there was even a thought that they could have been mastiff added in as well. But basicly, people don't really know, and when you consider that the type is only around 20 years old, and one of the founder breeders is still very much living, you'd think there wouldn't be such confusion. Thats before we even get to the health problems, level of inbreeding, pedigrees that aren't worth the paper they're written on, lack of breeding ethics, etc etc. Basicly, its all one great big mess. British inuit dog/british wolfdog. Northern inuit with the addition of csv or swh. Timbre dog. As far as I'm aware, thats basicly anything that looks remotely wolf like in appearance. Utonagan. Northern inuit with the addition of collie, not sure if anything else was added. British utonagan. New break away group from the utonagan. Utonagan with the addition of the original founder breeds, siberian huskie, alaskan malamute, gsd, northern inuit, though they say they're not going to add collie again. They're also considering other breeds but don't know what they are, maybe bsd. Tamaskan. Don't suppose I need to explain that one. Aatu tamaskan. Refer to earlier post. Taz __________________ Never argue with idiots. they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

6 July 2010, 22:46	#1
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Geregistreerd: 24 February 2010 Locatie: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Berichten: 252	Sounds like Dutch Malinois...

8 July 2010, 17:23	#2
Joswolf Member Geregistreerd: 8 June 2006 Berichten: 757	Sorry but Whiteang is Valco but is no wolf. This is a picture and everyone can see that its no wolf. http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...1.jpg?download Jos

13 July 2010, 15:03	#5
hanninadina Senior Member Geregistreerd: 13 November 2003 Berichten: 2.466	You are right, there is no test, how much wolfconten is inside. I am in contact with Bob Wayne who is worldst best genetic in wolves. Sure it is true there is some wolfblood from csw inside Tamaskan. To be honest, for me it is not a breed yet. There are people mixing everything together with all they are maybe getting. I had an question too, if they could use my male csw. And of course they did even ask noblepawz. But Sky would never allow mating one of her dogs such Mixdogs. This shows me only that these people do know nothing about wolfdogs. And when you say that they are using even "ill" dogs so no one should buy one. I wrote already that there are enough lines of wolfish looking csw which behave more family like and less working like. I would really much prefer. Christian

13 July 2010, 20:34	#8
Joswolf Member Geregistreerd: 8 June 2006 Berichten: 757	Explain what? Why i believe this. Thats what i heard from several Tamaskan owners. Or do you mean explain why i believe a CWD is more agressive then a Saarloos. Jos

13 July 2010, 18:46	#14
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Geregistreerd: 24 February 2010 Locatie: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Berichten: 252	Well, again, it'll be buyers that dictate the market. People may breed the dogs, but if there are no buyers, they will not continue... I would think a Saarloos would fit the bill if someone wanted a wolfy dog with a soft temperament and a predictable "look"... plus, then they could actually DO stuff with their dog as it is a "breed" and not just something someone cooked up. I would bet that part of the reason there is an interest in a wolfy looking dog with no wolfy "ness" is the shy behavior. Most people want a friendly "wolf" - according to what I have heard, many Saarloos are shy... perhaps part of why they are not as sought after? And CsVs do not make the best pets for the average person...