DM Testresults

[Morian]

we have clinic, i only thought that laboklin needs blood. and i still don't know what's the price i'm ready to go right now, but i need to know how much money does it cost. maybe more people from russia will test their dogs.

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Morian

we have clinic, i only thought that laboklin needs blood. and i still don't know what's the price i'm ready to go right now, but i need to know how much money does it cost. maybe more people from russia will test their dogs.

You are right Laboklin needs 2 ml EDTA blood!

Unfortunately in "dog world" and "breeding world of all kind of animals" a lot of people are cheating with info and pedigrees

That is why we in de past with Laboklin did make specific blood sample forms.
So we could be sure that all the info of CsW's was correct.
The veterinarian has to check the chip or tatoo (comparing with the number on the pedigree) and his to confirm and sign the blood is of that specific dog.

And then the vet has to send the tube with 2 ml EDTA blood (and the form and copy of the pedigree) to Laboklin.
The vet can send this by normal mail with normal stamp (in a common envelop with bubble plastic inside)

But.... like everyone, a lab wants to earn as much money as possible....
That is why Laboklin (like more commercial labs) also accept a swab that is send by an owner (without checking any chip or tatoo number!)
This is a pitty... because then it is possible to cheat

Don't misunderstand me: I don't say that people who did send a swab for DM test are cheating!!
I only try to explain why I think it is trickey to send swabs.

And that is why I prefer (and would like for future) every owner of a CsW to send 2 ml EDTA blood by his veterinarian for DNA tests
Then we always can be sure the results are realy of that CsW.

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General info:

A blood sample from for DM test you can Download HERE (in pdf)

How it works and how you can send EDTA blood to Laboklin you can find HERE

The price for DM test is € 66,-

Last updates DM test results: Click HERE

Last updates Dwarfism test results: Click HERE

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[Morian]

Originally Posted by mijke

You are right Laboklin needs 2 ml EDTA blood!

shiiiiit... i knew... so it's pactically impossible to send blood from us to germany i say, i asked some posts about this and they all answer they they don't send bio materials... there is the only chance if somebody goes to germany... ehh but how muc does this test cost? i must know it, even +/-

ah, sorry, i"ve found the price and i think i must translate this info and publish it on russian forum, aha

[martiou07]

on the number of dog tested, the number of carrying dog is relatively important, I think, it would be important indeed in testing…

My dogs more are not tested, but I will do it as soon as possible…

[CDaniela]

The veterinarian has to check the chip or tatoo (comparing with the number on the pedigree) and his to confirm and sign the blood is of that specific dog.
Taking of buccal swab is done in the same way, if the owner is responsible.

[Gypsy Wolf]

Do we have any informtion on how many of the Affected dogs actually end up developing DM symptoms? Or anyone studying this in the CsV?
Some veterinarians here say that 50% of German Shepherd Dogs are Carriers, 25% Normal and 25% Affected.
Of that 25% that are Affected, not all of them develop DM symptoms. Sometimes something else kills them young (like Gastric Torsion) and the GSD lifespan is not as long as the CsV.
So, if we extrapolate that CsV have similar statistics, shouldn't we see a LOT more symptomatic CsVs?
According to Dr. Clemmons, there are obviously other factors that cause development of DM symptoms - which they are now studying in GSD.
It is entriely possible that the wolf genetics mitigate development of DM symptoms somewhat, or that certain lines have a higher predisposition to developing symptoms - but is anyone collecting the information?
I ask, as here in the US our gene pool is small and given the above statistics, it is not necessarily an option to not breed 2 Carriers - in which case, some Affecteds may be produced. But if the amount of Affecteds that actually develop symptoms is low, than breeding 2 Carriers is an acceptable risk to keep our gene pool healthy.

[mijke]

4 of the 9 by DM test diagnosed DM/DM CsW's have already (or did have) physical problems. (not all affected DM/DM dogs have already the age for appearing physical symtoms)
Besides this, we know 4 very closed family dogs of these DM affected CsW's, that were euthanized based on diagnosed DM with physical problems (without tests results) .
(because we don't have official test results, they are not mentioned in the publication list)

Not all DM/DM dogs get physical problems!
For example the Universities of Bern and Missouri do study and resaerch about devellopping of DM and the appaearence of physical problems.

[cpw]

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

I ask, as here in the US our gene pool is small and given the above statistics, it is not necessarily an option to not breed 2 Carriers - in which case, some Affecteds may be produced. But if the amount of Affecteds that actually develop symptoms is low, than breeding 2 Carriers is an acceptable risk to keep our gene pool healthy.

Sorry but I have to ask. Is there not the option to not breed if all you have is two carriers?

Charles Wilner

[saschia]

Originally Posted by cpw

Sorry but I have to ask. Is there not the option to not breed if all you have is two carriers?

That is an option, if you have a large population. But if you have only a couple of animals on a continent, then the problems you'll get from inbreeding and bottleneck effects are much bigger than the ones you get by crossing known carriers.

It is a pity that the genetic tests are so expensive still, it would be best if one could test all the puppies, sell the one which are affected to owner who don't plan to breed, and adjust the environment so that the problems that will develop will be less hard or better adjusted for (like with high risk of hip dysplasia you can help by good supplements and targeted exercise).

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Morian

this is a good idea for breeders which sell their pups for 1000 eur and more but it's sad we can't be so sure about future hd result

but speaking seriously, i would pay +66 eur (or how much does the test cost) just to be sure that my pup will be healthy.

Me too.. I think that's a good idea and would like to ask our breeder.. Does anyone know how long the results take to return?

[wilczakrew]

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

Do we have any informtion on how many of the Affected dogs actually end up developing DM symptoms? Or anyone studying this in the CsV?
Some veterinarians here say that 50% of German Shepherd Dogs are Carriers, 25% Normal and 25% Affected.
Of that 25% that are Affected, not all of them develop DM symptoms. Sometimes something else kills them young (like Gastric Torsion) and the GSD lifespan is not as long as the CsV.
So, if we extrapolate that CsV have similar statistics, shouldn't we see a LOT more symptomatic CsVs?
According to Dr. Clemmons, there are obviously other factors that cause development of DM symptoms - which they are now studying in GSD.
It is entriely possible that the wolf genetics mitigate development of DM symptoms somewhat, or that certain lines have a higher predisposition to developing symptoms - but is anyone collecting the information?
I ask, as here in the US our gene pool is small and given the above statistics, it is not necessarily an option to not breed 2 Carriers - in which case, some Affecteds may be produced. But if the amount of Affecteds that actually develop symptoms is low, than breeding 2 Carriers is an acceptable risk to keep our gene pool healthy.

That was the reason why we talked Bern into doing a study on our breed.
Nobody knows on any breed at the moment because as far as I can oversee there is no breed where all dogs are tested so you cannot say how many dogs really are DM/DM. The numbers I could find about how many homocygotic carriers will get ill have been around 60 - 75%, though it might be also 100%
But there is a big consense about other things have to drop in or if it follows the human model there might be different forms of DM. In humans there are three different genetic forms and ways of heritage all causing the same symptoms.
We simply don´t know yet and we won´t know the next years.
That makes the research so important and it also makes it very neccessary that as many dogs as possible will get tested and send their blood to the research and keep somebody up to date when the dog gets ill (about everything not only DM!)

Ina