Anyone have experience with a purebred wolf?

saschia · 01-01-2011, 18:52

If I had enough money, I would rather buy land where wild wolves could live their own life undisturbed by the activity of people. As that is not likely to come to pass, I buy trees instead. There is this organisation in Slovakia, which is buying land in Eastern Slovakia in Cergov mountains and which has build a private reservation there. By buying a tree, you help buy more land, where the wood is not cut and where animals can live freely and not hunted. Wolves live there too, so although I don't own a wolf, I own a piece of land where it can live its life. I would recommend everybody to find a similar organisation in his/her own country - or any other country and donate some money or efforts in this kind of direction. It is much better for the wolves than trying to own one.

Mikael · 01-01-2011, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by saschia

If I had enough money, I would rather buy land where wild wolves could live their own life undisturbed by the activity of people. As that is not likely to come to pass, I buy trees instead. There is this organisation in Slovakia, which is buying land in Eastern Slovakia in Cergov mountains and which has build a private reservation there. By buying a tree, you help buy more land, where the wood is not cut and where animals can live freely and not hunted. Wolves live there too, so although I don't own a wolf, I own a piece of land where it can live its life. I would recommend everybody to find a similar organisation in his/her own country - or any other country and donate some money or efforts in this kind of direction. It is much better for the wolves than trying to own one.

Excellent ide

Very best regards / Mikael

hanninadina · 02-01-2011, 16:35

Happy New Year to you all!!!

Family Eichhorn, thank you very much, that you always think at me. I must made a big impression in your life, that you can not live without me. Reading by the way two threads and in both two, between the lines I am mentioned. Thanks for keeping me alive, hahaha!

Luna´s Mom, please do not be angry, but it seems indeed that you do not know a lot about wolves... Otherwise you would have seen immediately that the breeder you did link is a dreamer. These animals are dogs, maybe low contents but never ever pure wolves. Please read these two links (in the first link, Jimmy put another link to his own experiences) and think about if you could manage these experiences. And of course never have a wolf alone, he or she always needs a partner!

About winter wolf syndrom/seasonale aggression

http://www.wolfdogforum.com/forum/vi...&t=101&start=0

and aboout the same theme please scroll down to 6th of july 2008, but 7th of nov 2008 is interesting too.

http://awolfadventure.blogspot.com/

Don´t you live in Florida, when I do remember right, Luna´s mom? You are allowed to have wolfdogs F 1 75 % max.

Here are the laws in for the USA: http://www.hybridlaw.com/

Have a nice year

Christian

Gypsy Wolf · 02-01-2011, 21:48

I have studied them in the wild - Brrrr! Very cold environments. Don't worry, this is NOT, I repeat, NOT something I am planning to do in the near future, nor would I collect a wolf into my environment without properly preparing for the best, most enriched, life able to be provided.
Actually, I would much prefer a coyote to study (I have done that in the wild, too), all things considered.
My desire to keep, interact with and study a real wolf in a captive environment is to try to see how and where the wild behaviors were either suppressed or exploited due to human intervention. I am not interested in keeping an animal for my own personal pleasure, but more for personal study - the desire to see what the "base" animal of our domesticated dog is really like - that's why I am NOT interested in any hybrid. I want to see the intelligence, reasoning capabilty, natural aptitudes really are in our dogs' ancestor.
THis is not something I would take on lightly - and at this stage of my life, I do not have to room to be able to take on a wolf properly (my interest in this subject has been a part of my life since I studied them in the wild in 1992).
I am glad my comments brought about such discussion - my first step will likely be to volunteer at a wolf refuge at some point, before I decide to actually take on one for myself.
Where I live now, we recently found coyotes have extended their southern range to Coral Springs, FL - so I am actually considering finding the den and studying them here in their new natural environment - suburban/urban communities. The city of Chicago even employs them as ratters in the downtown area, and as I said before, I am more attracted to them as a species of interest as they are so incredibly intelligent and adaptable....

hanninadina · 02-01-2011, 22:43

A coyote is not a wolf!!!!

A wolf in capitivity is not a wolf in the wild!!!

A "hybrid" is not so much different to a wolf or what do you think is a F 1 90 %? It is always a matter of genes. I know F 2 which are like dogs and I know F 4 who are like wolf. So laws are funny because they have nothing in common with genes. Modern scientific did not make their "pawz" in actual laws. So they are werth nothing!

Have fun.

Christian

saschia · 02-01-2011, 23:59

Lunas Mom, but today's wolves are not ancestors of dogs. They evolved from the same ancestors, under the influence of their respective habitats, which included men, for the wolves usually as competitors or even as hunters. And todays populations of wolves are mostly small scraps that remained after centuries-long pressure of men trying to completely abolish them. Last couple of centuries, the selection on wolves was very hard, especially on their behavior.

hanninadina · 03-01-2011, 00:12

What are you talking about Saschia? In italy for example are about 1.000 wolves and about 1.000.000 wild living dogs. Some of the wolves mixe together with some dogs and these hybrids live in the villages and with people! And some of them recrosses with wolves again. That is one reason why in italy live about 250 black wolves. You know this research from 2008 that the black color in wolves come from dogs?

In spain is the same, in greece, slovenia and bulgary.

That is nature!!!!

michaelundinaeichhorn · 03-01-2011, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

nor would I collect a wolf into my environment without properly preparing for the best, most enriched, life able to be provided.

The problem stays the same: One wolf, what life would be able to be provided. I don´t expect land in Florida and even more important fences much cheaper than in Germany. The costs for the wolf enclosure here have been around 200 000 $, as far as I remember only the fence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

My desire to keep, interact with and study a real wolf in a captive environment is to try to see how and where the wild behaviors were either suppressed or exploited due to human intervention. I am not interested in keeping an animal for my own personal pleasure, but more for personal study - the desire to see what the "base" animal of our domesticated dog is really like - that's why I am NOT interested in any hybrid. I want to see the intelligence, reasoning capabilty, natural aptitudes really are in our dogs' ancestor.
.

But this research has already been done in the past and is going on at the moment. In your country one of the names is Ray Coppinger, though he is more in dogs but they do this studies at his institute and they also did those studies on Coyotes.
So if you want to do all this again with one wolf it is for your own pleasure and nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

I am glad my comments brought about such discussion - my first step will likely be to volunteer at a wolf refuge at some point, before I decide to actually take on one for myself.

As far as I can oversee the situation this is the best way to go in your country as there are a lot of private raised wolves in refuges or shelters.
Better to study them there or get two of one of those places than buying one from a so called breeder.

And as Sashia already wrote you will still not see the original type of wolf from over at least 15 000 years ago.

Ina

cindy23323 · 04-01-2011, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Don´t you live in Florida, when I do remember right, Luna´s mom? You are allowed to have wolfdogs F 1 75 % max.

Here are the laws in for the USA: http://www.hybridlaw.com/

Have a nice year

Christian

That site is not up to date Christian, the laws in Flor. changed last year (2010) this is now what the law states for Florida.

"Hybrids resulting
from the cross between wildlife and domestic animal, which are substantially
similar in size, characteristics and behavior so as to be indistinguishable
from the wild animal shall be regulated as wildlife at the higher and more
restricted class of the wild parent."

Gypsy Wolf · 04-01-2011, 19:08

Yes, I live in FL, and as I stated before, I would have to change my living situation in order to accomodate a wolf. If I stayed in FL, I would need a wildlife possession permit, but again, this is something further out in the future.
I disagree completely regarding your opinion that I wouldn't learn anything applicable if only interacting with one wolf. My study parameters are ethological, not traditional laboratory parameters. Many ethologists have made breakthrough studies utilizing interactions with only one or a few members of a species - one that comes to mind instantly is Alex the African Grey parrot and Irene Pepperberg - a bird that she purchased at a pet store and has now changed the idea of learning and cognition - in both birds, and in some cases her studies have been applied to early learning in children. It often takes someone with their own convictions to go ahead and just do it - rather than listen to the naysayers who end up actually benefitting from such maverick studies.
I would urge people unfamiliar with studies such as these to perhaps investigate them before passing judgment on a subject they know nothing about. If it weren't for the Pepperberg, Fossey, et al, studies - people who likely got the same (if not more) flak about their studies than I am on this topic - we would not have their enlightening and groundbreaking knowledge and the world would be a little less bright...

yukidomari · 04-01-2011, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

I would urge people unfamiliar with studies such as these to perhaps investigate them before passing judgment on a subject they know nothing about. If it weren't for the Pepperberg, Fossey, et al, studies - people who likely got the same (if not more) flak about their studies than I am on this topic - we would not have their enlightening and groundbreaking knowledge and the world would be a little less bright...

I am familiar with Pepperberg's work with her African Grey.

It seems that your mind is made up anyway, so it really doesn't make sense to point out huge differences in approach when you try to compare yourself to Fossey or Pepperberg, though..

Gypsy Wolf · 04-01-2011, 19:34

I am no Pepperberg or Fossey, my point is simply that there are people making judgments without understanding ethology studies or the parameters of said study.
It seems much of the judgment is coming from a personal and emotional views - and everyone is welcome to their opinions, of course. Much of the science we rely on today was conducted against popular views... sheesh, if it weren't for maverick scientists, we would likely still be thinking frogs spontaneously erupted out of mud in the spring and that our humors needed to be balance in order to eradicate disease.
My actual intent in starting this thread was to gather information from anyone on this board who had/has experience with pure wolves. I was looking for information on their experiences and interactions with the species - in whatever environment - whether captive or wild, so that I could begin to gather information for my future behavioral studies.
My mind is not made up regarding acquiring a wolf in the future - it may end up being too big a commitment - that remains to be seen...

saschia · 04-01-2011, 19:43

I don't mean to give you flak as you named it, and actually I know that YOU would benefit hugely from the study of even single wolf, even we might. My concern is about the wolf, if the cost/benefit is worth it. And by cost I mean the difference of the life of that wolf with you versus in a shelter/refugee/whatever else.

01-01-2011, 18:52	#1
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	If I had enough money, I would rather buy land where wild wolves could live their own life undisturbed by the activity of people. As that is not likely to come to pass, I buy trees instead. There is this organisation in Slovakia, which is buying land in Eastern Slovakia in Cergov mountains and which has build a private reservation there. By buying a tree, you help buy more land, where the wood is not cut and where animals can live freely and not hunted. Wolves live there too, so although I don't own a wolf, I own a piece of land where it can live its life. I would recommend everybody to find a similar organisation in his/her own country - or any other country and donate some money or efforts in this kind of direction. It is much better for the wolves than trying to own one. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

02-01-2011, 23:59	#6
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Lunas Mom, but today's wolves are not ancestors of dogs. They evolved from the same ancestors, under the influence of their respective habitats, which included men, for the wolves usually as competitors or even as hunters. And todays populations of wolves are mostly small scraps that remained after centuries-long pressure of men trying to completely abolish them. Last couple of centuries, the selection on wolves was very hard, especially on their behavior. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

04-01-2011, 19:43	#13
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	I don't mean to give you flak as you named it, and actually I know that YOU would benefit hugely from the study of even single wolf, even we might. My concern is about the wolf, if the cost/benefit is worth it. And by cost I mean the difference of the life of that wolf with you versus in a shelter/refugee/whatever else. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

02-01-2011, 16:35	#3
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Happy New Year to you all!!! Family Eichhorn, thank you very much, that you always think at me. I must made a big impression in your life, that you can not live without me. Reading by the way two threads and in both two, between the lines I am mentioned. Thanks for keeping me alive, hahaha! Luna´s Mom, please do not be angry, but it seems indeed that you do not know a lot about wolves... Otherwise you would have seen immediately that the breeder you did link is a dreamer. These animals are dogs, maybe low contents but never ever pure wolves. Please read these two links (in the first link, Jimmy put another link to his own experiences) and think about if you could manage these experiences. And of course never have a wolf alone, he or she always needs a partner! About winter wolf syndrom/seasonale aggression http://www.wolfdogforum.com/forum/vi...&t=101&start=0 and aboout the same theme please scroll down to 6th of july 2008, but 7th of nov 2008 is interesting too. http://awolfadventure.blogspot.com/ Don´t you live in Florida, when I do remember right, Luna´s mom? You are allowed to have wolfdogs F 1 75 % max. Here are the laws in for the USA: http://www.hybridlaw.com/ Have a nice year Christian

02-01-2011, 21:48	#4
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	I have studied them in the wild - Brrrr! Very cold environments. Don't worry, this is NOT, I repeat, NOT something I am planning to do in the near future, nor would I collect a wolf into my environment without properly preparing for the best, most enriched, life able to be provided. Actually, I would much prefer a coyote to study (I have done that in the wild, too), all things considered. My desire to keep, interact with and study a real wolf in a captive environment is to try to see how and where the wild behaviors were either suppressed or exploited due to human intervention. I am not interested in keeping an animal for my own personal pleasure, but more for personal study - the desire to see what the "base" animal of our domesticated dog is really like - that's why I am NOT interested in any hybrid. I want to see the intelligence, reasoning capabilty, natural aptitudes really are in our dogs' ancestor. THis is not something I would take on lightly - and at this stage of my life, I do not have to room to be able to take on a wolf properly (my interest in this subject has been a part of my life since I studied them in the wild in 1992). I am glad my comments brought about such discussion - my first step will likely be to volunteer at a wolf refuge at some point, before I decide to actually take on one for myself. Where I live now, we recently found coyotes have extended their southern range to Coral Springs, FL - so I am actually considering finding the den and studying them here in their new natural environment - suburban/urban communities. The city of Chicago even employs them as ratters in the downtown area, and as I said before, I am more attracted to them as a species of interest as they are so incredibly intelligent and adaptable....

02-01-2011, 22:43	#5
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	A coyote is not a wolf!!!! A wolf in capitivity is not a wolf in the wild!!! A "hybrid" is not so much different to a wolf or what do you think is a F 1 90 %? It is always a matter of genes. I know F 2 which are like dogs and I know F 4 who are like wolf. So laws are funny because they have nothing in common with genes. Modern scientific did not make their "pawz" in actual laws. So they are werth nothing! Have fun. Christian

03-01-2011, 00:12	#7
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	What are you talking about Saschia? In italy for example are about 1.000 wolves and about 1.000.000 wild living dogs. Some of the wolves mixe together with some dogs and these hybrids live in the villages and with people! And some of them recrosses with wolves again. That is one reason why in italy live about 250 black wolves. You know this research from 2008 that the black color in wolves come from dogs? In spain is the same, in greece, slovenia and bulgary. That is nature!!!!

04-01-2011, 19:08	#10
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	Yes, I live in FL, and as I stated before, I would have to change my living situation in order to accomodate a wolf. If I stayed in FL, I would need a wildlife possession permit, but again, this is something further out in the future. I disagree completely regarding your opinion that I wouldn't learn anything applicable if only interacting with one wolf. My study parameters are ethological, not traditional laboratory parameters. Many ethologists have made breakthrough studies utilizing interactions with only one or a few members of a species - one that comes to mind instantly is Alex the African Grey parrot and Irene Pepperberg - a bird that she purchased at a pet store and has now changed the idea of learning and cognition - in both birds, and in some cases her studies have been applied to early learning in children. It often takes someone with their own convictions to go ahead and just do it - rather than listen to the naysayers who end up actually benefitting from such maverick studies. I would urge people unfamiliar with studies such as these to perhaps investigate them before passing judgment on a subject they know nothing about. If it weren't for the Pepperberg, Fossey, et al, studies - people who likely got the same (if not more) flak about their studies than I am on this topic - we would not have their enlightening and groundbreaking knowledge and the world would be a little less bright...

04-01-2011, 19:34	#12
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	I am no Pepperberg or Fossey, my point is simply that there are people making judgments without understanding ethology studies or the parameters of said study. It seems much of the judgment is coming from a personal and emotional views - and everyone is welcome to their opinions, of course. Much of the science we rely on today was conducted against popular views... sheesh, if it weren't for maverick scientists, we would likely still be thinking frogs spontaneously erupted out of mud in the spring and that our humors needed to be balance in order to eradicate disease. My actual intent in starting this thread was to gather information from anyone on this board who had/has experience with pure wolves. I was looking for information on their experiences and interactions with the species - in whatever environment - whether captive or wild, so that I could begin to gather information for my future behavioral studies. My mind is not made up regarding acquiring a wolf in the future - it may end up being too big a commitment - that remains to be seen...