MISSING credibility of the French pedigrees

[Diane]

Yes, you're quite right!

Impose his own language on a foreign forum is quite arrogant!

I agree with it, and that's exactly what I wanted to demonstrate to all of you, overall to the as said "admin".


However "my lack of manners and correct behaviour" is purely subjective, and it's your own point of view which I don't care anymore, Herr

TschüB

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Silvester

Also Mikael , Rona and all the other users of ENGLISH forum are not admin !

I don't even know who the Admin is I used irony, because I found the 'Admin-French war' really strange I wondered what the reaction of SOME French breeders would be it they found out he might also be... French.

The struggle with Admin seems a substitute conflict to cover the real problems that occur in SOME kennels according to the principle that attack is the best kind of defence.

Should half of the energy spent on writing here and attacking the Admin be used for testing dogs' DNA, the problem would have been solved long ago.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Rona

I don't even know who the Admin is I used irony, because I found the 'Admin-French war' really strange I wondered what the reaction of SOME French breeders would be it they found out he might also be... French.

The struggle with Admin seems a substitute conflict to cover the real problems that occur in SOME kennels according to the principle that attack is the best kind of defence.

Should half of the energy spent on writing here and attacking the Admin be used for testing dogs' DNA, the problem would have been solved long ago.

YES Rona YOU say a TRUE, Admin speak about mixes from all countrys, and unfortunaly big procent dogs who are mixes live in FR, but Admin speak and about italian, finish, czech, and others countrys mixes too.

I very hope people end speak about " You love me You not love me" but begin work with this problem.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

Should half of the energy spent on writing here and attacking the Admin be used for testing dogs' DNA, the problem would have been solved long ago.

Agree, agree and agree

Very best regards / Mikael

And...

PS, I think the Admin is from Finland I´m 30% sure , DS.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Mikael

I think the Admin is from Finland I´m 30% sure , DS.

I think Lupis is the Admin I'm 31% sure because they're both anonymous... Lupis, are you the Admin?

[Silvester]

Originally posted by Rona:
"Should half of the energy spent on writing here and attacking the Admin be used for testing dogs' DNA, the problem would have been solved long ago."

Yes absolutely- that´s my opinion too !

Ps. Hey Mikael, may be Rona is right - and admin is French himself ??

Can be very possible - first I think because of his lack of manners and correct behaviour....

But I don´t really think this is typical for ALL French people !

Best regards , Uli alias Silvester

[wolfin]

Noo, nooo Admin are from Commonwealth of Independent States very typical work and charakter

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Silvester

Originally posted by Rona:
"Should half of the energy spent on writing here and attacking the Admin be used for testing dogs' DNA, the problem would have been solved long ago."

Yes absolutely- that´s my opinion too !

Do you really want Diane to make DNA tests of her dog? Are you not afraid to reveal that puppy has 'Coton of Tuléar' blood??

[martiou07]

Yes, undoubtedly of the serious concern in France, a warning statement is of setting. I join it completely…
Then, not to forget the dogs either coming from Hungary (Crying Wolf), there is also a problem to solve… there too, a warning statement.
is unhappy, a so young race where we start to have very serious concern…

[Jet]

Thanks Martial!

[Silvester]

Originally posted by Jet:
"Do you really want Diane to make DNA tests of her dog? Are you not afraid to reveal that puppy has 'Coton of Tuléar' blood??"

Sorry - who spoke about the dog of Diane?? Not me and also not Rona.

But of course, you are right - after all what I did see here in the last days about strange crossings some "breeders" obviously did with Csw I would not wonder if someone tried to mix with Caucasian Owczarka...or better with Bengal tiger...???

[Jet]

Ok yes we still can discuss with humour...

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Diane

Impose his own language on a foreign forum is quite arrogant!

I agree with it, and that's exactly what I wanted to demonstrate to all of you, overall to the as said "admin".

Yes, but in this case English is considered as international language for people from Poland, Germany, Czech, Slovakia, Lithuania, Holland, Russia and many others. Only very few members in English forum are really English. So please, if you are trying to communicate in an international section of the forum - try to do it in English.

In fact all these attacks on Admin in a VERY unpolite way makes French breeders even more... hm... like people you would not want to have anything in common... Speaking French on international forum also shows disrespect for all the other members.

[admin]

Originally Posted by Jet

Admin, words are important. There is in France a lot of clean breeders, with pure CSV lines.

Please let the others French breeders out of your hunt. All beautifull french dogs are not mixed, you know? .

It is why I wrote
"Till the case will be solved please DO NOT BUY ANY PUPPIES FROM FRANCE from the mentioned kennels or kennel which base on dogs coming from the AWD producers. If you are importing a puppy from France please ask on the forum if the puppy is purebreed because there are MANY known mongrels which are still not marked as "MIXES" in the database but will be listed soon or later (with the remark "DOG NOT FOR BREEDING)."

I suggested (and I suggest) puppy buyers to ask about it (about a will to buy a puppy from France) on a official forum because of the French forum I saw that even the breeders who have dogs which are for 100% AWD-mixed swear that their dogs are purebreed.
So one more time: the pedigree do not guaranty that the puppy comes from the parents which are listed there. And the words of the breeder are useless too - the slogans about DNA test and being sure that the parents are real CsW are nothing worth too.
It is everything about running a good business. They will lie till the end.

Good breeders have no reason to be afraid - by many dogs there are no doubts about their origin.

[admin]

Originally Posted by plongeuse

Admin, do you realize what you write? French breeders produce all the shit! Bad breeders or apprentice sorcerers exist in ALL countries! So it's not because you suspect certain breeders, that you have criticize the entire French production! Be careful Admin, your words can cause great harm !!

NO. There is no pedigree cheating in Slovakia, Germany, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Sweden or Poland. It is because of the regulations which are solving such cases. In all those mentioned countries the problem of "possible Saarloos mixes" would be solved already 2 years ago. And none of the dogs would be used for breeding.

2-3 years ago it was written on the forum that some French dogs are AWD mixes. NOBODY checked the DNA, NOBODY cared for the problem. The ONLY answer which other breeders received from France was: "You are envy because we have the best CsWs in the world".

No the problem appeared again because the problems spread among the French kennels and 100% mongrels started to be born in French kennels. It is the best visible truth that the words posted 2-3 yeats ago were RIGHT.
What answer I get on the French forum? That I'm Nazi trying to destroy French breeders. Envy Nazi attacking the best breeders in the world.

I get information about witness who is prepared to confirm by your kennel club that de la Louve blanche breeder mixed her dogs with AWD. What help did I get on the French forum? NONE. Again only emails and post about Nazi, envy and about "attacking the best (French) breeders" of the world.

I'm far away from attacking all French breeders. I have no reason to attack French people - nationalism is a unknown word for me. People who are calling other users "nazis" are for me just mindless dumbs who really do not know what they are writing about.

But the facts are:

1- It is SURE some of the French dogs are AWD and Saarloos mixes
2- We know dogs which are mongrels for sure
3- But nobody knows which ELSE dogs are mixes/mongrels
4- Dogs which have FCI pedigrees are replaced in France by unknown mixes and breed with French FCI pedigrees
5- Mixes are imported from Finland and possible also from Hungary
6- Not even the breeders and owners know if their dogs are purebreed or not

So how can you say the pedigrees are something worth when NOBODY know which dogs have real pedigrees, which are purebreed CsW?

I suggest that the breeders who use direct imports from the "sure" countries can be also sure that they have real Wolfdogs. The same apply to kennel which do not use dogs from "de Louba tar" (and co.), de la Louve blanche, Crying Wolf and de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus kennels. The rest?
They can only hope that their dogs are CsWs... Hope for the DNA test...

I can imagine that kennels which

[admin]

Originally Posted by Watchwolf

But currently there is no real proof and this is the main problem. You can not accuse without proof and even more when you do it anonymously. you are innocent until proven guilty

WHAT?

The owner of American Wolfdog told that CPouchka is daughter of his AWD Unkas. The same with Ckinay. There is a person (witness) who will sign under the paper which can bi given to your kennel club. It is not enough?

There are many photos of the German Shepherd, and Husky alike dogs which are born in France. Such "mutation" by Wolfdogs would be not possible even in the de la Louve Blanche kennel would be situated next to Chernobyl power plant! Sorry for the sarcastic words but what do you want more? Should I go to France - steal Couchka and both her "parents" and make the DNA tests? You all know it is not possible. And second - since the French kennel club is the FCI member country it must care for the credibility of its pedigrees. What is missing now. It is their DUTY.

I know the breed club has a lot work to do. And i know there is a World Dog Show in Paris soon (where many mongrels and mixes will enter the show ring) and because of it the French officials have no time to care for it at the moment. I know for many breeders and owners it was hard to believe that an FCI breeder can do something like this. But it was done. Not one time and not only in one kennel (there are at last 3 sources of French mongrels).
One thing is sure: YOU MUST DO SOMETHING.

The pedigrees are worth nothing at the moment and ONLY YOU AND YOUR KENNEL CLUB can solve this problem.

[admin]

Originally Posted by Jet

I really prefer you act your choice on a list of dogs rather than a country, or a list of breeders.

In fact, perhaps, there are some breeders in France who may be used a Mixed CSV in the past, with papers ok, without knowing the truth about it. And now, they are breeding Pure CSV.

I do not blame such breeders even a bit. Everybody can make mistakes - especially unconscious. If the AWD-mixes story will be not stopped nobody can be sure in the near future if he is breeding with purebreed dogs.

I have nothing against people who used mixes without knowing it but will take such dogs out of breeding.

[admin]

Originally Posted by Sherdor

Be sure ADMIN that as PROFESIONAL BREEDER, even i am not in your target, here in France, DEFAMATION facts are punished by law.

The same is with fraud.
If you are going to the shop, if you buy a golden ring and you pay for golden ring. You must get a ring made of gold.
If you go to a breeder and you want to buy a PUREBREED dog and when you pay for a purebreed dog you must get a purebreed dog. If you get a mongrel with pedigree it is a FRAUD!

So start to use a law for cleaning your country (your kennel club) out of the cheaters.

[admin]

End with the speaking about me. Now I have very easy correct question to the French people posting in this topic.

There is no doubt that some French pedigrees are cheated. That some dogs are mixes. so my question to each of you is:

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM?
WHICH OFFICIALS DID YOU CONTACTED?
DID YOU INFORM YOUR KENNEL CLUB ABOUT THE CHEATERS?
DID YOU INFORM YOU BREED CLUB ABOUT THE FAKE PEDIGREES AND ASKED FOR DOING SOMETHING?
DID YOU ASKED FOR OFFICIAL DNA TESTS BY THE SUSPICIOUS DOGS?
DID YOU INFORMED THE FRENCH OFFICIALS ABOUT BREAKING THE LAW ABOUT PROTECTED ANIMALS?
DID YOU INFORMED THE FRENCH OFFICIALS ABOUT BREAKING THE LAW ABOUT KEEPING DANGEROUS ANIMALS?

Please write me what have you done beside writing about the bad bad admin...

[ArImInIuM]

Originally Posted by Admin

WHAT?

The owner of American Wolfdog told that CPouchka is daughter of his AWD Unkas. The same with Ckinay. There is a person (witness) who will sign under the paper which can bi given to your kennel club. It is not enough?

There are many photos of the German Shepherd, and Husky alike dogs which are born in France. Such "mutation" by Wolfdogs would be not possible even in the de la Louve Blanche kennel would be situated next to Chernobyl power plant! Sorry for the sarcastic words but what do you want more? Should I go to France - steal Couchka and both her "parents" and make the DNA tests? You all know it is not possible. And second - since the French kennel club is the FCI member country it must care for the credibility of its pedigrees. What is missing now. It is their DUTY.

I know the breed club has a lot work to do. And i know there is a World Dog Show in Paris soon (where many mongrels and mixes will enter the show ring) and because of it the French officials have no time to care for it at the moment. I know for many breeders and owners it was hard to believe that an FCI breeder can do something like this. But it was done. Not one time and not only in one kennel (there are at last 3 sources of French mongrels).
One thing is sure: YOU MUST DO SOMETHING.

The pedigrees are worth nothing at the moment and ONLY YOU AND YOUR KENNEL CLUB can solve this problem.

unkas est toujours vivant ?? on peut faire des tests sur lui non ??
pour ce qui est de ckinay, qui est le père de jalisca va falloir sérieusement arrêter d'affabuler .......





unkas is still alive? one can not test him?

in terms of ckinay, who is the father of Jalisca will have to seriously stop storyteller .......



http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/9961



d'ou ce chien est issu d'un AWD ?????


or of the dog comes from a AWD ?????

et sa fille jalisca


and daughter Jalisca

http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/12871



ou cette chienne ressemble à un AWD ???

or that bitch looks like a AWD??

arrêtez de dire n'importe quoi, si tel est le cas, apportez les preuves maintenant, mais arrêtez de lancer de tels débats qui au final n'aboutiront à rien, ADMIN, tu es fatigant, vraiment fatigant


stop saying anything, if that is the case, make the evidence now, but stop throwing such debates that ultimately will come to nothing, ADMIN, you're tiring, really tiring

donc soit vous apportez les preuves tout de suite, soit vous attendez avant de dénigrer qui que ce soit , s'en devient lassant de votre part....

So you either bring proof immediately, or you wait to denigrate anyone, it becomes tiring on your part

DES PREUVES, NOUS VOULONS DES PREUVES pas de SUPPOSITIONS


EVIDENCE, WE WANT PROOF no ASSUMPTIONS