MISSING credibility of the French pedigrees

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/122.html

Hmmm... And this judge are good ???

I mean, would this dogs pass a good Bonitation judge ???

Best regards / Mikael

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Hmmm... And this judge are good ???

I mean, would this dogs pass a good Bonitation judge ???

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael I understand maybe I am to young to stupid to judge now, but excelent thake for suspicious dogs and "old wolf" in judgement, like Oskar, Sonja, A.Simackova, Jedlicka, Soukupova they JUDGE who judge very long time and judge in bonitation ( a few about 20 years)....

and you quest make bonitation sense in detection suspicious dogs or not

[Mikael]

Maybe a DNA test are to be made at all Bonitations

Best regards / Mikael

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Maybe a DNA test are to be made at all Bonitations

Best regards / Mikael

I not see problem in this. this not expensive this test - very good when this make all breeder with they litter before sale puppy and see 5-10 years and we have great DNA databasa

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by wolfin

I not see problem in this. this not expensive this test - very good when this make all breeder with they litter before sale puppy and see 5-10 years and we have great DNA databasa

One Bonitation judge of 10 ... 9 to go !!!

What do you think Hanka is it possible to get the clubs to start to talk about this ???

Best regards / Mikael

[Hanka]

Everybody here knows, Jedlicka is Mutara maker and Mutara owner= mutaras heva good results. And= it is NOT czech club judge, because club does not cooperate wit him many years.
Yes, it is easy to tell "it is not possible", to write here 1000 things why it is not possible. So good, we will write here hundreds pages about terrible french mixes. It is better. Only write and do nothing.
My God......
So Ok, we will look at next and next generations of mixes and we will write how it is terrible....

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Everybody here knows, Jedlicka is Mutara maker and Mutara owner= mutaras heva good results. And= it is NOT czech club judge, because club does not cooperate wit him many years.
Yes, it is easy to tell "it is not possible", to write here 1000 things why it is not possible. So good, we will write here hundreds pages about terrible french mixes. It is better. Only write and do nothing.
My God......
So Ok, we will look at next and next generations of mixes and we will write how it is terrible....

my God.. you make this same too.

Originally Posted by wolfin

Better say, when you are in CZ club commision, who czech club planed make with this problem?

who planed make your club ( club country in who born this breed, when CZ club are this who work with breed and protect the breed who we can read almost in all post in CZ forum) in this case?

p.s. Why I quest- club from origin mas begin work with this- and others clubs/people want to help too, but origin club mas make a start and make working plan.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, it is easy to tell "it is not possible", to write here 1000 things why it is not possible. So good, we will write here hundreds pages about terrible french mixes. It is better. Only write and do nothing.

What I see here is more and more forum members who calmly and continously keep asking French owners/breeders to act rationally and DNA test their dogs with the questioned pedigrees. In return we get loads of hysterical, hostile and arrrogant posts with accusations of the Admin, wd database, self-victimization, etc. etc. A lot of insecurity and aggressiveness can be seen, where rational, calm cooperation could be expected on the part the declared "breed lovers".

What do you then propose realistically, Hanka? Because writing that the French Breed Club should function better and the Frenech should bonitate their vlcaks doesn't help solve the problem any further.

Especially, that obligatory bonitation and strong Breed Club did not save Czech breeding from a scandal with breed-mixing and it took honest Czech breeders quite a while to deal with the problem oficially . Unofficially it still exists, because the dogs are still bred on, bonitated etc.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Maybe a DNA test are to be made at all Bonitations

Best regards / Mikael

And we will soon have twice as many litters from unbonitated parents, as we have now... But of course, the idea of DNA testing of every litter would be great.

[Hanka]

If you think Mutaras, it was "work " of a few people, behind back of all club. Reaction of czech club was quick. These people was kicked out from club goverment. Thanks to members of club. Now is not possible to breed these dogs and their offsprings in countries of origin. It is enough what we need. Breeding in other countries is thing of other clubs in the World. If they do nothing against mixes (not only mutaras)...............:confus ed2

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

If you think Mutaras, it was "work " of a few people, behind back of all club. Reaction of czech club was quick. These people was kicked out from club goverment. Thanks to members of club. Now is not possible to breed these dogs and their offsprings in countries of origin. It is enough what we need. Breeding in other countries is thing of other clubs in the World. If they do nothing against mixes (not only mutaras)...............:confus ed2

ah.. in this case czech club DOING nothing, when this not are in CZ republik- "not ours house not ours problem"? I good understand? niice - where did a worts about "only we protect breed, the best breeding plan, we very loove CSV"
but and in CZ are suspicious dogs who have example Galiba blood- who make in this case- or this is old problem,- and breed with this dogs today without problem?

[Hanka]

Daiva, you know very well we are NOT garant of breed. = we can do nothing. So we can do things only in Czech- of course.

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by wolfin

example Galiba blood- who make in this case- or this is old problem,- and breed with this dogs today without problem?

Old Problem ?????
Que dois je comprendre ? Merci d'être plus précise dans vos affirmations ....

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Hanka

If you think Mutaras, it was "work " of a few people, behind back of all club. Reaction of czech club was quick. These people was kicked out from club goverment. Thanks to members of club. Now is not possible to breed these dogs and their offsprings in countries of origin. It is enough what we need. Breeding in other countries is thing of other clubs in the World. If they do nothing against mixes (not only mutaras)...............:confus ed2

OK. So I ask again: what do you propose realistically to do, if writing is bad?

Without reliable DNA test results or certified declarations of the fraud witnesses, nothing can be done. All (except the owners ) may see the dogs look strange and do not resemble their parents, but since there are no proofs, the French Kennel Club or FCI can do nothing. BTW I don't think there is a rubric on the bonitation card called "resemblence to parents"

Since the dogs that should be tested are in hands of people who do not want or intend to conduct the tests, only hypocritically shout "we want proofs" nothing can be done except writing and warning potential buyers agaist purchasing dogs from certain kennels that have something to hide.
As you could see such economic pressure evoked fits of anger - so it seems more effective than other measures taken .

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Rona

OK. So I ask again: what do you propose realistically to do, if writing is bad?

Without reliable DNA test results or certified declarations of the fraud witnesses, nothing can be done. All (except the owners ) may see the dogs look strange and do not resemble their parents, but since there are no proofs, the French Kennel Club or FCI can do nothing. BTW I don't think there is a rubric on the bonitation card called "resemblence to parents"

Since the dogs that should be tested are in hands of people who do not want or intend to conduct the tests, only hypocritically shout "we want proofs" nothing can be done except writing and warning potential buyers agaist purchasing dogs from certain kennels that have something to hide.
As you could see such economic pressure evoked fits of anger - so it seems more effective than other measures taken .

rona, she not antswer. she say all - this not cz club problem and this not interesing for she.

[Hanka]

It is easy Rona. Poland club can officialy ask FCI or garant of breed about next steps. (If you need info about it). If poland club does not exist- it is problem. So you can ask like privat person, but I am not sure if you will have answer.
But I will always write the same. Reason is in hands of clubs in every country, if they really want breed wolfdogs and care about breed. If goverment of club does not work, members of club can kick up bad leaders out and make new club goverment, which will like our breed. It is easy. Who can change situations in other countries if not club?

Here on WD you can see photos of possible mixes again and again and write about it. But it is not reason.