Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[GalomyOak]

I don't really consider myself - or my dogs, other than they are MY dogs, my babies - exceptional. We are average. I had no dogs growing up, and only 2 - a mixed breed and a GSD - to base my "dog experience" on. I knew there would be a huge learning curve when I bought my first CSV (something I emphasize to potential new owners). I don't train every minute of every day. I am a teacher, and live on a small farm - we train when we have time. I am not so rich to afford top trainers or to to dog shows and trials every weekend. We go through local dog classes, and the rest is...a hobby, for free time.

Moreoever, I tried to do a selection from different lines since I knew each dog might potentially one day have something to contribute to breeding here. All of my dogs are very different from one another. I appreciate that, and try to recognize their weaknesses, and also their strengths. With the breedings I do, I will always look for ways to improve the breed - temperament, health, structure, and aptitudes for working. In new owners for my puppies, I don't look for "working" homes, nor do I place in homes with "mystical wolf" people. I do look for homes that are active, have dog experience, enough time, space, good family and work setup - and most importantly - someone with that open and flexible mind. It's hard work, finding good owners, just for one litter every 1-2 years, in the whole USA. It's becoming a little easier now, since people are starting to become familier with the breed - but maybe harder too, since it requires more "searching" to see what the intentions of people really are. I imagine it becomes more difficult to find good homes for 4-5+ litters a year. Maybe it's not the breed itself, but how the breed is "grown" instead, that creates issues? No, my dogs are NOT GSDs, I work with those too (DDR lines, with common GSD ancestors to my CSVs)...THEY make me crazy. Hmmm..I think we have moved to a different topic.

[Jennin Lauma]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Moreoever, I tried to do a selection from different lines since I knew each dog might potentially one day have something to contribute to breeding here. All of my dogs are very different from one another. I appreciate that, and try to recognize their weaknesses, and also their strengths. With the breedings I do, I will always look for ways to improve the breed - temperament, health, structure, and aptitudes for working. In new owners for my puppies, I don't look for "working" homes, nor do I place in homes with "mystical wolf" people. I do look for homes that are active, have dog experience, enough time, space, good family and work setup - and most importantly - someone with that open and flexible mind. It's hard work, finding good owners, just for one litter every 1-2 years, in the whole USA. It's becoming a little easier now, since people are starting to become familier with the breed - but maybe harder too, since it requires more "searching" to see what the intentions of people really are.

good thoughts

[Czertice]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

I don't really consider myself - or my dogs, other than they are MY dogs, my babies - exceptional. We are average. I had no dogs growing up, and only 2 - a mixed breed and a GSD - to base my "dog experience" on. I knew there would be a huge learning curve when I bought my first CSV (something I emphasize to potential new owners). I don't train every minute of every day. I am a teacher, and live on a small farm - we train when we have time. I am not so rich to afford top trainers or to to dog shows and trials every weekend. We go through local dog classes, and the rest is...a hobby, for free time.

Moreoever, I tried to do a selection from different lines since I knew each dog might potentially one day have something to contribute to breeding here. All of my dogs are very different from one another. I appreciate that, and try to recognize their weaknesses, and also their strengths. With the breedings I do, I will always look for ways to improve the breed - temperament, health, structure, and aptitudes for working. In new owners for my puppies, I don't look for "working" homes, nor do I place in homes with "mystical wolf" people. I do look for homes that are active, have dog experience, enough time, space, good family and work setup - and most importantly - someone with that open and flexible mind. It's hard work, finding good owners, just for one litter every 1-2 years, in the whole USA. It's becoming a little easier now, since people are starting to become familier with the breed - but maybe harder too, since it requires more "searching" to see what the intentions of people really are. I imagine it becomes more difficult to find good homes for 4-5+ litters a year. Maybe it's not the breed itself, but how the breed is "grown" instead, that creates issues? No, my dogs are NOT GSDs, I work with those too (DDR lines, with common GSD ancestors to my CSVs)...THEY make me crazy. Hmmm..I think we have moved to a different topic.

On the site where I publish my CSV photos, I get lots of people asking about how it is with CSVs in the US, interested in acquiring one. So I usually point them to you and your website, apart from wolfdog.org. I suspect some of these people fall into the 'mystical wolf' cathegory, but not all of them. I hope you don't mind;]

[whitefang]

Just one question, maybe I haven't read it here: Do the red CSV-puppies in France get FCI-pedigrees? Therefor they are not according to the standard...

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by whitefang

Just one question, maybe I haven't read it here: Do the red CSV-puppies in France get FCI-pedigrees? Therefor they are not according to the standard...

The breed standard is something unknown by the huge majority of the CzW breeders, then how will an group-judge or an all-rounder judge be able to know how should look like a CzW when nor even the breeders knows it?
We can often meet atypical dogs winning titles at dogshows, I will not get amazed if a red dog win as well.

[whitefang]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

The breed standard is something unknown by the huge majority of the CzW breeders, then how will an group-judge or an all-rounder judge be able to know how should look like a CzW when nor even the breeders knows it?.

You are right, many jugdes don't know really the wolfdogs. It is the same by the Saarlooswolfdogs.
But if the breeder will get the pedigrees at his club or the SCC and the colour isn't right, is it not the club or SCC, who denied the pedigrees?
In Germany you have to declare the colour of the puppies and if the colours wouldn't be right, I am sure that the VDH wouldn't give the pedigrees.

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

We can often meet atypical dogs winning titles at dogshows, I will not get amazed if a red dog win as well.

Haha, oh year ... or better, oh no! That would be a scandal!

[saschia]

Puppies being untypical is not a reason to not give pedigrees - if the color is totaly impossible in the breed than the kennel club can ask parentage tests, or can write directly in the paper that the puppy is not standard and cannot be used for breeding, but that's all.

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by saschia

Puppies being untypical is not a reason to not give pedigrees - if the color is totaly impossible in the breed than the kennel club can ask parentage tests, or can write directly in the paper that the puppy is not standard and cannot be used for breeding, but that's all.

Pour répondre à cette question :
J'aurai pu en effet inscrire les chiots, à la S.C.C., au titre de la descendance, puisque les tests ANTAGENE de filiation prouvent, sans l'ombre d'un doute, que les chiots sont bien issus de Sibir et Thalia Crying wolf....
Je pouvais donc demander les certificats de naissance officiels, en précisant "simplement" la couleur rousse sur les documents...

Dans les cas de litige, la Société Centrale Canine prend en compte la réalité de la filiation (via des tests génétiques) et non la couleur de la robe d'un chiot (qui peut évoluer dans le temps)....

Après mûre réflexion, j'ai choisi de ne pas demander les certificats de naissance pour ces chiots.....

Ils ne sont donc pas inscrits au Livre des Origines Français (LOF) en tant que chien-loup tchecoslovaque.
De même, sur leur carte d'identification, il est bien précisé la mention "Type" chien loup tchécoslovaque + la couleur Rousse

Ils ne seront JAMAIS inscrits au LOF (même à titre initial) et n'auront jamais de descendants, puisque rendus inaptes à la reproduction ....

Mais je le répète, rien ne pouvait m'interdire d'inscrire ces chiots au titre de la descendance, si je l'avais voulu, puisque les parents sont bien déclarés, eux, comme étant des chiens-loup tchécoslovaques de pure race et la filiation reconnue en tant que telle.....

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by whitefang

Just one question, maybe I haven't read it here: Do the red CSV-puppies in France get FCI-pedigrees? Therefor they are not according to the standard...

Cf. Réponse détaillée faite à Sashia ...

[Jet]

May be Lorry wrote in french because she is tired to have to justify her acts...
May be, she wanted ton write in FRench to be sure that all her words are the good one

She is one of the best french breeder, by telling, acting, to the pure CSV breed, and almost with health purpose.

And you kow... I don't know that girl (Woman? ) I never met her, I never wrote her... I have no interrest with her... It s only the truth.

And as i write friendly things about people, i just wanted to tell another thing, out of this subject : Yukidomari just helped me to see my dog's pictures were stolen by a US people.

So.... Keep in your mind : universal forums are good to exchange, share, and be friends all round the countries!!!!
It is sometime the most important, better than a dog's color....

[hanninadina]

What do you say to this pup? It is wild german wolf pup from the Milkeler Pack born this year in Eastern Germany the Lausitz - not far from Margo and Przemek, lol. All red in coat!Do you think this is a pure wolf pup? http://www.sz-online.de/nachrichten/...11336Christian

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

What do you say to this pup? It is wild german wolf pup from the Milkeler Pack born this year in Eastern Germany the Lausitz - not far from Margo and Przemek, lol. All red in coat!Do you think this is a pure wolf pup? http://www.sz-online.de/nachrichten/...11336Christian

It says (I think, it's in German , which is a little rusty for me!) that I need a password...

[whitefang]

@Vaiva and Jennin Lauma: Just agree with your statements about breeding! Just brought on the point of view!