How can we stop our breed from collapsing under the push of fake CSW and pedigrees?

[saschia]

Christian, I would be very interested to know in which kennel you think the CSV was "refreshed" by wolf blood.

The post regarding mixing/cheating in Slovakia was mine. I cannot of course tell about wolves, as there are plenty of those in Slovakia , I have my reserves but would not consider it impossible. And I don't say people in Slovakia would not cheat, although I would like to believe that. But my post which you mentioned was specifically about SWD inmixing, and I gave several reasons why I consider it very unlikely to happen in Slovakia, at least untill now http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=116.

[saschia]

Massimo, you are right that the clubs should do something, so I hope we will be able to think about something and, most importantly, to get a good cooperation between the clubs.

But I must say, that although I find it hard to believe Edit would cheat intentionally, the red puppies were born after the parents from her kennel, and the paternity was proved by DNA tests, so that means something is wrong, and her saying nothing and not cooperating doesn't help. On the other hand, I don't like making judgement based on limited knowledge, so I am not judging myself until I know more.

Making the overall DNA testing would be the most revealing thing, but as Sonya posted elsewhere, the question remains who will pay for it? And if we find the money somehow, in what way will we decide, what/who to test first? The money is never unlimited, unlike the ways you can spend it.

[massimo]

Saschia
who sent dna samples to prove paternity?

Als I remember there was an issue with DMA results which were not logical, dna paternity proven as well...
why doesnt the SAME laboratory handle DNA paternity and DMA? this would be the only way of proving the results, or not?
I am really lost...
I dont trust anybody anymore.

[GalomyOak]

What is the typical cost in different countries associated with DNA parentage tests?

[saschia]

the paternity testing I believe was done by licenced laboratory, and concerned the red puppies and their parents. The DM testing with inconsistent results was in a different dogs and as far as I know the results of simultaneous DM and paternity testing were not published yet.

The mistakes in DM testing might easily come from DNA contamination or from mixing of samples, as it is mostly done not in licenced lab, and incoming samples are not taken by a strict protocol. That's why the results are only partly official, there is no certificate. So mistakes can happen and sometimes do. DM test are also done by licenced lab (in that case the results of parents and offspring should be consistent).

Highly off-topic paragraph: The only official results of DNA tests you can get with samples being taken and labeled by a licenced veterinarian (who puts a stamp and signature on it, so should carry consequences if it is shown later that the samples were mixed up before coming to the lab), so that there is no question of their being taken from declared animal (that means the vet should check the chip or tattoo number against the passport or the pedigree). Then the sample goes with the copy of pedigree (proving the identity of the dog in question, and having the same chip or tattoo number!) to the certified lab which has to at all times keep track of the sample with proper labeling of all extracts etc, so that the results can be unquestionably traced back to the original sample and from it to the animal in question.

You can get results on any DNA samples which you send to a testing lab, but it only proves that the results were obtained from that sample. If you have no way to prove that the sample was for sure taken from that animal, than you don't have official results of that animal!