Health results (also DM!!) in the Wolfdog.org database

admin · 04-10-2011, 12:22

We decided to publish also the unofficial results basing on the official results we get.

All puppies of a dog which is N/N will be marked as "N/?" - because we know thet at least they will have one "clear" gene. Their parents will be also marked like this.
The same with DM/DM dogs - all their puppies and their parent will be signed as "DM/?" - at least carriers of the DM gene.

It folllows also that all puppies of parents which are "DM/DM" will be marked as "DM/DM".
All puppies of parents which are "N/N" will be marked as "N/N".

Dogs which produced N/N, N/DM and DM/DM puppies will be marked and "N/DM".

The official result will be written ONLY basing on the official DM test results.

The same aplly to the dwarf test results.

jmvdwiel · 04-10-2011, 21:30

I don't think that is wise to do, on several levels mistakes (on purpose or unintentional) can be made. And by doing that people can not see anymore if the dog is clear by genetic test or by his/her parents test.

I would suggest to show the results only if there is an official result.

greetings Judith

admin · 04-10-2011, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel

I don't think that is wise to do, on several levels mistakes (on purpose or unintentional) can be made. And by doing that people can not see anymore if the dog is clear by genetic test or by his/her parents test.

You right - it is why it will be written by every result if it is official (and who made it) or unofficial (basing on the results of the parents or the offsprings).

jmvdwiel · 04-10-2011, 21:43

Don't you think that breeder wil point to the database...see my dog is free... so I don't have to show you a result and I don't have to test

And I think that people wil read the unofficial result like it is official and make their discision based on this 'test' that was not done.....

GalomyOak · 04-10-2011, 21:57

What about the puppies of "unofficial" dogs? Example: Grandparents all negative by test, parents clear because of this...at least for our testing clinic (OFFA), this 3rd generation must be tested to be considered clear (in case there is some new mutation, I guess)

admin · 05-10-2011, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

What about the puppies of "unofficial" dogs?

No - it is only for one generation. One forward and one back.
Alrready now we were able to find out several DM-carriers what is important for the owners because the dogs do not live anymore and can not be tested - buy owners of their puppies know not there there is a possibility that their dogs can be also carriers.

loco · 04-10-2011, 21:59

Maybe you also can give HD/ED results based on the test off the parents

???

Just no result without a official test result

.
Otherwise we are back to the Fairytales again

.

woland77 · 04-10-2011, 23:40

This choice is wrong from scientific point view, and agaist international accreditation rule's.
Between Mendel laws and and the exact match of a gene transmitted, thera are human hand, and potential error, or mistake.
Is for this than International Accreditation Law ask for every animal (not only dog), ufficial test result. Only with this rules genetic selection can be free from mistake,fraud.

saschia · 05-10-2011, 00:36

What is also important - and especially now - is to keep in consideration that you can infer the genetics of a pup from the official results of it's ancestors only if you are sure about the parentage. Because otherwise all Czechoslovak wolfdogs are still BB in theory. And of course, it does not rule out mutations.

admin · 05-10-2011, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by woland77

This choice is wrong from scientific point view, and agaist international accreditation rule's.
Between Mendel laws and and the exact match of a gene transmitted, thera are human hand, and potential error, or mistake.
Is for this than International Accreditation Law ask for every animal (not only dog), ufficial test result. Only with this rules genetic selection can be free from mistake,fraud.

Basing on this we can not publish ANY results because even the "official" results are not 100% sure. There is a problem with the OFFICIAL laboratory Vetlabor which made mistakes while testing the probes. But EVEN the Laboklin makes mistakes and this week we received new results of a dog whose owners received the results N/N but the dogs is N/DM (he was tested for MH instead of DM).

If we can not be sure that even the OFFICIAL results are 100% clear of "human hand" why we should post ANY results?
Remember that the same apply to HD results - they are ALWAYS subjective. Sure they meassure the angles but still there is sometimes even 20% differences between vets in one country.

You will NEVER be sure if a person will not make a "mistake". There will be always a small percetage of possible errors.

But even OFFA makes the same as we do - if the parents are tested by OFFA the puppies are treated the same way like we do. If there is a parentage test the puppies will even receive OFFICIAL certificartes WITHOUT testing. And they really know that they are doing...

About mutations: they exist but the possibility that they appear is so small that they are pased over. Only here of forum people try to explain every abnormality with "mutattion".

admin · 05-10-2011, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by loco

Maybe you also can give HD/ED results based on the test off the parents

???.

There is a basic difference between HD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygenetic) and PRA/dwarf/DM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenetic)....

GalomyOak · 05-10-2011, 12:04

http://offa.org/dna_cbp.html

Above is the link to OFFA's policy on "Clear by Parentage" - maybe it would be useful to put a similar mark "CPB" by dogs who are clear by "official" results from parents - "unofficial" seems to imply results are only those reported by owners (with no official papers/links to back it up) - I think ALL posted health results should stem originally from verified results.

* One other thing that is interesting to note is that all dogs (mother/father/puppy) must be DNA identity profiled to have clear by parentage, to prove they are actually related - so we don't accidentally register mixes...

loco · 05-10-2011, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

There is a basic difference between HD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygenetic) and PRA/dwarf/DM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenetic)....

,.....................

!!!
But it makes me happy you also know

.

04-10-2011, 12:22	#1
admin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 583	Health - DM and DW test results We decided to publish also the unofficial results basing on the official results we get. All puppies of a dog which is N/N will be marked as "N/?" - because we know thet at least they will have one "clear" gene. Their parents will be also marked like this. The same with DM/DM dogs - all their puppies and their parent will be signed as "DM/?" - at least carriers of the DM gene. It folllows also that all puppies of parents which are "DM/DM" will be marked as "DM/DM". All puppies of parents which are "N/N" will be marked as "N/N". Dogs which produced N/N, N/DM and DM/DM puppies will be marked and "N/DM". The official result will be written ONLY basing on the official DM test results. The same aplly to the dwarf test results.

04-10-2011, 21:57	#5
GalomyOak Howling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 436	What about the puppies of "unofficial" dogs? Example: Grandparents all negative by test, parents clear because of this...at least for our testing clinic (OFFA), this 3rd generation must be tested to be considered clear (in case there is some new mutation, I guess) __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com

04-10-2011, 21:59	#7
loco Non active. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Outside, walking the dog. Posts: 2,873	Maybe you also can give HD/ED results based on the test off the parents ??? Just no result without a official test result . Otherwise we are back to the Fairytales again . __________________ Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away .

05-10-2011, 00:36	#9
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	What is also important - and especially now - is to keep in consideration that you can infer the genetics of a pup from the official results of it's ancestors only if you are sure about the parentage. Because otherwise all Czechoslovak wolfdogs are still BB in theory. And of course, it does not rule out mutations. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

05-10-2011, 12:04	#12
GalomyOak Howling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 436	http://offa.org/dna_cbp.html Above is the link to OFFA's policy on "Clear by Parentage" - maybe it would be useful to put a similar mark "CPB" by dogs who are clear by "official" results from parents - "unofficial" seems to imply results are only those reported by owners (with no official papers/links to back it up) - I think ALL posted health results should stem originally from verified results. * One other thing that is interesting to note is that all dogs (mother/father/puppy) must be DNA identity profiled to have clear by parentage, to prove they are actually related - so we don't accidentally register mixes... __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com Last edited by GalomyOak; 05-10-2011 at 12:07.

04-10-2011, 21:30	#2
jmvdwiel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,061	I don't think that is wise to do, on several levels mistakes (on purpose or unintentional) can be made. And by doing that people can not see anymore if the dog is clear by genetic test or by his/her parents test. I would suggest to show the results only if there is an official result. greetings Judith

04-10-2011, 21:43	#4
jmvdwiel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,061	Don't you think that breeder wil point to the database...see my dog is free... so I don't have to show you a result and I don't have to test And I think that people wil read the unofficial result like it is official and make their discision based on this 'test' that was not done.....

04-10-2011, 23:40	#8
woland77 Gran figl de putt Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,638	This choice is wrong from scientific point view, and agaist international accreditation rule's. Between Mendel laws and and the exact match of a gene transmitted, thera are human hand, and potential error, or mistake. Is for this than International Accreditation Law ask for every animal (not only dog), ufficial test result. Only with this rules genetic selection can be free from mistake,fraud.