Demoniak de la Louve Blanche

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by LadyJessy

This discussion is more absurd ...
At first they said Diamond's father was a Saarloos....
Now some say that the father is Skog (Saarloos mix with..?!)

I think there is a huge misinterpretation of the word "Saarloos" in the case of CsW. I know only one case where real Saarloos were used to be crossed with Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. It was already several years ago - I remember the Czech CsW Club planned to make international protest against the "de Louba Tar" breeder due to untypical look of some dogs coming from that kennel. (The breeder used Czech "lines" but its offspring didn't resemble Czech Wolfdogs but Saarloos bred by this kennel). They gave up after they were warned that they can not do anything against the breeder who is also FCI judge and the president of the Dutch CsW Club. Simply a VIP in her country.

But it seems that Czech Club was right: some years later (2008?) the Dutch kennel club proved the DNA and discovered that in fact the breeder really crossed CsW and Saarloos. It is a pitty that as far I know they proved only Saarloos Wolfhonds and the pedigrees of the CsWs coming from that kennel were never officially verified. Because some of that dogs look VERY suspicious. And some of them resemble 100% Saarloos Wolfhonds.
Maybe the "purity" DNA test can give us the answer for it.


All other description of dogs which are "Saarloos" are not 100% correct. Mutaras are similar to Saarloos because of the same origin. Both are crosses of the American/Canadian Wolves and GSD. The same apply to the mixes bred in France - most of them seems to be crosses of American Wolfdogs or similar crosses - because of it they LOOK like Saarloos Wolfhonds (in the fact they are kind of CsW-Saarloos crosses).
Anyway neither Mutaras and their offsprings nor the mixes bred in France are Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. All of them should loose the pedigrees.

[koomak]

You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds. . My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . . Give me serious evidence and maybe I make arrangements. .

[koomak]

margo margo margo . . sarloos, us, mix, Wolf. . . I'm so tired, so tired :-( :-( :-( :-(

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by koomak

margo margo margo . . sarloos, us, mix, Wolf. . . I'm so tired, so tired :-( :-( :-( :-(

Margo? Margo is not important here. You should pay more attention to the words of Christian who is breeding American Wolfdogs and knows then very well. Or to Jos who has many experiences with wolf crosses and he can easily recognize them. His words:

Originally Posted by Joswolf

Frank Capiez who had my wolfdogmix did speak fine English when i spoke with him. Who are you fooling around and asking if i had Demoniak, sorry i never said that i never seen that dog. And i never seen the so called parents but have you no eyes? Can you not tell an TWH from a mix. Or did a wild wolf climb the fence over night? The breeders who have TWH you think they are all stupid?

Don't forget Michael:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Demoniak and Doz are mixes with fake pedigrees. And all their offspring too (hello Gunner )...

In the fact Sophie it is not imprtant how the animals will be called. Sarloos, us, mix, Wolfdog or if you will call them with your new breed name. One thing is important and one thing is sure:
THEY ARE NOT CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by koomak

You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds..

It is not about the look. But about the FCI rules :

These FCI breeding regulations apply directly to all FCI member countries as well as the contract partners. This means that breeding may only be carried out with pedigree dogs which have a sound temperament, are healthy in functional and hereditary terms and are registered with a studbook or register (appendix) recognised by the FCI.

Mixes and crosses used in France are not pedigree dogs. It means using them breaks the main FCI rule. Their offsprings can not (should not) be registered. If they were registered then it was done against the FCI rules.

It doesn't matter if the puppies are "nice" or not. They are just NOT Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs according to the definition made by the Slovakian Club - garant of the breed by FCI.

Really it must be solved as soon as possible. Because ALL the French breeders will surfer of it ("thanks" to Frank)). I already heard the voices that some breeders from abroad are thinking to force in their countries the $5 regulation from the STANDING ORDERS OF THE FCI. And I know Slovakia already makes use of it:

Any member or contract partner can refuse to (re)-register in its studbook a dog suffering from hereditary defects or featuring defects which go against the Article 2 of the statutes or a dog which does not comply with the rules of selection defined by the member or contract partner in question.
In addition, the members and contract partners are not obliged to automatically register or re-register an imported dog in their studbook if they consider the pedigree to have been prepared incorrectly. In that case, the member and contract partners should clearly explain to the member which issued the certified export pedigree the reason for their denying

It means that Slovakia will refuse registration of dubious Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from abroad and taken to Slovakia. If the French Kennel Club will not clean this mess - if the pedigrees will be not verified and the crosses will spread as it is happening now - you can be prepared that more countries will follow Slovakia and in the worsest case they will REFUSE to register ALL Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from France
(because of the missing credibility of the French pedigrees).

Everybody can see that there is HUGE problem with pedigree cheating in France. But it must be solved in France. All other countries can do (and for sure will do if the problem is not solved) is to ban ALL CsWs from France.

[martiou07]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

It means that Slovakia will refuse registration of dubious Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from abroad and taken to Slovakia. If the French Kennel Club will not clean this mess - if the pedigrees will be not verified and the crosses will spread as it is happening now - you can be prepared that more countries will follow Slovakia and in the worsest case they will REFUSE to register ALL Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from France
(because of the missing credibility of the French pedigrees).

.

Regrettably, I believe that it is not ready to arrive, as says it Daiva: "money, money,money...."

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by koomak

You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds. . My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . . Give me serious evidence and maybe I make arrangements. .

money money money

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by koomak

. My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . .

You're not serious, are you?
Excuse my open, you probably call them rude words, but either you're blind, stupid or a liar.
Or you just don't want to see or hear the truth.

Michael

[koomak]

Margo. . . .
You think I make babies for money?
You are even more ridiculous than me. . .
You do not know me. . . You are a world I do not like. . I am not a Breeder! !
You, you make babies for money, that's a reality. Thank you God, we are very different! ! Doz will be very little babies, because I love them like my own dog and I fear for them from this terrible world! !
Also, I never sell my babies to breeders. . . You can tell even from Sarka Ariminium it will not have my babies. . His TRAP will not work! ! I decided it was not a good Breeder! ! Her female has got 10 litters! !!!, it's horrible! ! And you say I make babies for money! ! You are ridiculous! Look at you! ! Do not contact me over to have a baby. I'm not stupid! ! I know why you want them! Machiavellian you are! ! I can not cooperate with you, sorry, I can not love you! ! I AM NOT LIKE YOU. . .
I don't like the trap. . .

[koomak]

Thanks Sylvie!

[wolfin]

Do not contact me over to have a baby. I'm not stupid! ! I know why you want them!

)) sory but in our country this type dogs we can catch free- I speak about mix. and any normal people not want a not pure CSV.
I not interesing in mix dog, not now not in future, not afray, I not want any dog who are with falsh blood.
oh yes you not breeder you only person who want destroid breed.

He is a champion of France, is the standard
is Czechoslovak wd!

when this animal passt a IPO - I say WOW. now he are ONLY a dog show Ch not moore.
Sylvia I think better about you. or you one writte in personal messages other in forum? FR CH is nothing - all dogs can be a CH if owner have time and money and stupid ambition. This say NOTHING about dog, realy, if you think FR CH make this mut a PURE - you realy childish and funny. This not change anything.

[koomak]

No it's me who will not give you puppies :-) :-) :-) :-)
you do not know for Ariminium? She asked me two babies, one male and one female! it proposed to double the price for the first choice! ! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

[wolfin]

bisnes is bisnes
you can breed all who want only not lie about purity this mix and end. moore not interesing, when they not have typical behavior from CSV.

[SARKA]

Originally Posted by koomak

No it's me who will not give you puppies :-) :-) :-) :-)
you do not know for Ariminium? She asked me two babies, one male and one female! it proposed to double the price for the first choice! ! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Questo è il messaggio scritto da Filippo per Sophie su facebook
"11 ore fa
Monica Gambini

• Sophie m'a demandé qui je Sarka vos animaux de compagnie, vos chiens sont dans l'amour, et en particulier Guerya et Graal. Je ne m'inquiète pas si ils CLC - MIX ou les loups, j'ai déjà une femelle qui m'a vendu Sarka et j'adore cette race et le loup. Je suis désolé pour ce malentendu. Je ne suis pas un éleveur de mon travail et mon mari est un constructeur. Nous vivons à la campagne en Toscane, si vous venez en Italie sont heureux de vous accueillir. La Femme de la CLC (Wapi) que nous avons est pour moi et mon mari comme un fils, est notre ombre. J'espère que vous pourrez comprendre. Désolé pour le français, j'ai traduit avec google.
  Cordialement."
  

Sophie asked me who I. Sarka said me that your animal are bery beatiful and in particular Guerya and Graal.For me is not important if this dog are CLC-MIX or wolf because I have just one femele from Sarka and I like CLC and wolf too.
I'm sorry for this misurdestanding .I'm not one breeder and is not my work and my husband is a constructor.We live in Tuscany in rural and if you want to come in Italy you are my guest.My femele CLC (Wapi) is for me and my husband like daughter.I hope that you can understand.




I confirm that Filippo asked me two puppies from Doz and Demoniak of Sophie only because filippo like this animal and he promise me don't use never in reproduction,because Filippo is Arimminum Extra Edition owner's but he have official agreement with me and in this agreement is written that Extra Edition will be cover only one male that I will choice.Filippo like my opinion in breeding.
About double price I can guarantee that Filippo was prepared to pay for time normal price for the first choice. But now Filippo confirm me that he does not want puppies free price too .