Demoniak de la Louve Blanche

[sylvie:)samira:)]

I know Sophie and she does not take the puppies to Doz, for money. !!!
but you're crazy!??!!
you are really bad to say what!!really!you do not know her!!

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by sylvie:)samira:)

I know Sophie and she does not take the puppies to Doz, for money. !!!
but you're crazy!??!!
you are really bad to say what!!really!you do not know her!!

I not am crazy, I not mas know she personality, when shes WORK speak about she in the best way. breeding atypical animals with falsh pedigree. Not important sale she or not- I not disput about this, only about falsificate and breed destroing for stupid ambition, not moore.

[sylvie:)samira:)]

Daiva, I do not speak of the mix or not mix! Stardard or not standard...
I speak that you can not afford to judge, a person who does not know!
She loves her dogs...and where the puppies go to stay
so say whatever you want
but she did not do it for money!
this is not right.
If you want to speak ill of her, do it when you know very well, things and people!!
I close the conversation

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by sylvie:)samira:)

She loves her dogs...and where the puppies go to stay
so say whatever you want
but she did not do it for money!

This is what it is doing? in order to better for CSV breed? this is JOKE?

There are two evils in the world and one of them is foolish ambition. they kill more breed than the desire for money. if she loves dogs, and breed puppies who called they a breed name, which are not named? Well can simply give them as mixes what they call the CSV.

[koomak]

Wolfin,
Ok, thank you for the way I work. I just love my dogs, I want the best for them, I do not want to see my babies abandoned. I will not stand, so I try to choose the perfect owners. And they have tests MD, radios. .
For false papers, we dont know they are false. . .
I am not responsible for the old generations.
ME I m doing DNA testing of my babies with their parents! !!
And everyone must continue to test their babies now! and there will no more problems.


NOW 2012, When a person buy a baby, she must ask parents tests

and all will be well for the future of the breed! !!!!!!!!!!

[hanninadina]

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...4&postcount=40

Margo there are always ways of exception. And the maine thing is that Demoniak is a pure csw. Was Rep a dog? All wolfdogs are dogs, guess you know that.

None of your links work... This advertise from 2005 I do remember very well where Franky took pictures from american wolfdogs or even pure wolves to promote one of his first litters.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Margo there are always ways of exception.

Yes, but this right have ONLY clubs from the countries of origin - people who created this breed. NOBODY else. Frank can not change it - it is not his property.
Or better: Czech and Slovakian breeders created a breed. What some French breeders do is a forgery. Some kind of "Mercedes made in China" - it seems to be the same but it is not.

BTW Christian, I can really imagine the war which would start if for example Czech breeders will start to change the standard of French Berger de Brie....

Originally Posted by hanninadina

And the maine thing is that Demoniak is a pure csw.

No, he is not. His puppies are EXTEMLY untypical. Not ven one is similar to a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. He can be registered as pure Saarloos because his offsprings a very similar to dogs of this breed.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

This advertise from 2005 I do remember very well where Franky took pictures from american wolfdogs or even pure wolves to promote one of his first litters.

Christian, look on the facts: friends of Frank (and he also) have American Wolfdogs. He is advertising his litters with photos of American Wolfdogs. Surprisingly his dogs are starting to look like those crosses....
And there are more and more atypical dogs appearing there.

We have two solutions:
The French land is contaminated with radioactive waste and the dogs are mutating there very fast.... (the question is only: why only Franks dog are mutating? ) OR somebody is cheating with the pedigrees....

[koomak]

Thank you Sylvie, it makes me very happy :-) :-)

Daiva knows me a little I think. .

Now I think it is useless to continue this conversation, it will lead to no solution. . .

I think we all will be a Reggio Emilia. .
So see you soon Margo, see you soon Daiva. . . .

Sylvie kiss <3

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by koomak

I think we all will be a Reggio Emilia. .
So see you soon Margo, see you soon Daiva. . . .

Wait - what is in Reggio? I heard about European CsW Show. But it seems it will be "Csw, crosses and mixes show"....

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by koomak

I just love my dogs, I want the best for them, I do not want to see my babies abandoned

Gosh I think people who mate dogs for healty die

NOW 2012, When a person buy a baby, she must ask parents tests
and all will be well for the future of the breed! !!!!!!!!!!

future with a falsificate documents and blood?

I think we all will be a Reggio Emilia. .
So see you soon Margo, see you soon Daiva. . . .

I think not

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...4&postcount=40

Margo there are always ways of exception. And the maine thing is that Demoniak is a pure csw

eee you joke, pure in who? in pedigree- yes in this paper he is pure. in reality? I think not ( and not I alone)

[hanninadina]

Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.

No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.

And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.

I wrote it several times, with people like you there would be no csw breed! Karel Hartl was an open minded person who tried a new thing - new after Mr. Saarloos.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.

That's not my understanding of the word 'breed' and 'pure-breed'.

A CsV is not a Carpathian wolf nor does it need to be closely related to one. It is a dog breed bred from not only Carpathian Wolves but also German Shepherd Dogs. It is a human construct, a man-made dog breed.

And though I don't think I will take any IPO exams with my dog, I still want the dog to have a temperament suitable for working and training in other things. I don't want simply a dog who can stay at home outside of kennels. There are dogs like that already of many companion and toy types.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.

Christian - I have no idea what did you heard about his origin but one thing I'm sure. He is not a high percentage cross of EUROPEAN WOLF. He has American blood.

Look on his offsprings:








It is obvious that there is American/Canadian blood inside. If it was a European Wolf which they used to make Demoniak then they mixed it with Husky for sure.

I saw many European Wolves and some of their crosses. NONE look like those animals... I have no idea who told you such lie but kick him...

[hanninadina]

Lol, ok ok Margo, hahaha, so I guess I was right and Skog is the father of Demoniak, hahaha.

But to be honest, if you look at the pics from Demoniak and Doz they look almost like brother and sister. Here a pic. And they look on all pics like brother and sister. And I guess, you better know than me, that Doz is a daughter from a carpathian wolf male and a csw.

Wolweryne is a son of CPouchka, who is a daughter of american wolfdog Uncas. That is why he looks in winter coat like typicla american wolfdog.

But one is for sure, Demoniak behaves, moves and looks like a F 2.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.

very simple, you not are a breed patronat, only one little man.

and it says that Czechoslovakia Wolfdog is only a dog:
u ktorého sú známe všetky generácie predkov ku 1.6.1999
(deň medzinárodného uznania plemena FCI )

English: "by whom all ancestors till 1.06.1999 are known
(it is the date of the international recognition of the breed)"

Simply said: Czechoslovakian Wolfdog can be called ONLY a dog whose all ancestors are known (and whose were registered in 1.06.1999) and come from the OFFICIAL lines.

No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.

read a FCI standart. one thime second thime - CSW are with working trial.

And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.

you make my day ))) I remember you with cry and in runn when he want with you a speak like a guard dog. I understand this saw moore people and you now feel bad, for this - Dog say in who place is your place.

I wrote it several times, with people like you there would be no csw breed! Karel Hartl was an open minded person who tried a new thing - new after Mr. Saarloos.

oh yes, your type only want a quicker destroid this with who work people about 60 years.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.

No Christian. You can not write this. The breed is not YOUR property. And also not the property of French breeders or anybody else. NOBODY of you can say: we will change the breed!

It was created by Hartl as WORKING breed. And the character is described in the breed standard:
Lively, very active, capable of endurance, docile with quick reactions. Fearless and courageous. Suspicious. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.

So you can ONLY breed dogs which match the standard. If you will breed other dogs (with timid, indifferent character) which are only good as sofa dogs - you will breed UNTYPICAL CsWs.

If you, or anybody else do not like this character then there is only one solution: STOP to breed CsW. Switch to Saarloos or create an own breed.

An example - if you will buy a Ferrari and you will decide that the car is "DANGEROUS" because it is TOO FAST. And you will change the engine: if you will remove the 620HP engine and you will put there the Daewoo Tico 41HP motor and later you will try to sell this car as "better - more safe - version of Ferrari" believe me: the Ferrari company will sue you! You know why... Because what you are selling is no more a Ferrari but a counterfeit of Ferrari.

The same with Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. It was a project done by the Czechoslovakian Army (nowday it would be protected by the copyright law and for sure marked with trademark). There are only 5 lines of CzWs and ONLY dogs coming from those lines can be described as CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS. Additionally the Czechoslovakian team of "constructors" of this breed exactly described the characteristics of CsW and publishe it in the breed standard. You MUST follow the rules set by them. If you do something else you are breaking the "copyright rules" by producing counterfeits of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.

Which dog? The only F5 I know is the G-litter - Garuda, Geryon, Gibil and Gwaihir visit our meeting frequently. None of them is even a bit shy. And they are extremely friendly...

[Morian]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

No one needs a csw who is able to pass IPO exams! We do not need aggressiv forward going like to use their teeth csw. We need simply pet wolfdogs who are family dogs and can stay in the house with the people and do not need to put in kennels.

eee? do you still talk about czechoslovakian wolfdog, fci standard nr. 322
"UTILIZATION : Working Dog. CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. : Group 1 Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs. Section 1 Sheepdogs. With working trial."??? ipo or any other exam means that the dog is controlable and trained, not agressive. stop to mix cutlets and flies please

[furyos]

Waouuuu so much Bad words in this topic ...really you have a real big problem ... For information in France we have an exam to have the pedigree and breed with our dogs ..and the juge accept or not only if the dog is in the standard ...if for you have a wolfish type is not the standard shame on you because it s the standard ... Nothing else are in my blood line than what is wrote on pedigree ... Sorry if you don t have same result with your marriage .... Margo never use same blood and never crying wolf the most wolfish dog in Europe with passo del lupo ...after it s your choie and don t blâme if in few tzars your smaller smaller dog arrive ... Use allways sale Male Like eligo don t give a good example for you Margo who want give best chance to our breed ... Money money money ... Perhaps you can cross him with poodle ... I can give you some French kennel adress ... ) best regards drama forum ... For your information if few people like to be manipulate like lamb in this marketing PERON ....not me ... !!!" God save this queen " but not me !!! Best of the best for you ... Frank capiez ... (big honor to be so important in few moment in tchecoslovaquian wolfdog world )

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Morian

eee? do you still talk about czechoslovakian wolfdog, fci standard nr. 322
"UTILIZATION : Working Dog. CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. : Group 1 Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs. Section 1 Sheepdogs. With working trial."??? ipo or any other exam means that the dog is controlable and trained, not agressive. stop to mix cutlets and flies please

Morian you will find out that the kind of people that want petwolfdogs of beautifull wolfish look simply don´t understand what working abilities mean. For them working ability is there when you can teach the dog to sit for a treat. For people that work dogs it is the stamina to proceed the trained work under all cicurmstances. Nothing to do with aggressiveness but with the will to work and the ability to ignore disturbing surroundings and of course endurance in concentration.
But working dogs need owners to be in charge and funktion as a pack leader, that means they also ask abilities of their owners, to have a show dog is much easier and less challenging.

There is a thread on the German forum "Vorfälle bei der Nacht der Wölfe" that shows very nicely the way of thinking in both groups. Christian with a panicking AWH met people with CSW. Both kind of dogs showed typical canine behaviour and typical "breed"behaviour, one owner wasn´t in charge...

The Briard-example is a very good one. Briards have been working dogs but also had the bad luck to have nice hair. The show Briard lost it´s abilitiy to do the work this breed was created for. We have Border Collies without herding instinct, hunting dogs without hunting abilities, sled dogs without the confirmation needed for pulling sleds
And I am afraid but I think we already lost the battle against the selfish people looking for an exotic dog to show of. We will loose another working breed to get animals that are abused for selfish reasons.
We have so many breeds inclusive AWHs (that are no real breed) that are only bred for looks and showing, it makes me very sad that we loose one breed afther the other to this kind of people looking for another exotic kind of dog to show of, with no respet for the intention of the founders and absolutely no respect for the animal itself.

Ina