The Future Of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs?

Ursula · 06-04-2012, 19:45

Very well put. But that was not what I was getting at.
I am in the dog industry, I work with dogs everyday... different breeds. And from my experience you can get a purebred goldenretriever to act like this. You can get any breed or mixed breed to act like this.
I was just confirming that this video is not the only "evidence" to prove that these dogs are not purebred.
That was my point.
I completely understand that breeders are thriving to make the breed better. Which should be done in every breed. (but I also think that breeders in every breed should work more together)
But what I see from this video, are dogs that have been negatively socialised or maybe none... The part where the handler grabs the dogs muzzle and is negative towards the dog, with out any reason (or I did not see any reason on this video, maybe i was not able to see the entire situation) but what I saw is that the dog was penalised for acting shy. Which gives the dog more reason to be more aprehensive towards people. I could not tell from this video that they were mixed breeds... and if it makes any difference, neither did my colleagues...
But it doesnt make any difference.
These are my opinions. and just wanted some clearification on this matter.
That is all

michaelundinaeichhorn · 06-04-2012, 20:13

Well, I also work in the "dog-industrie" , I see a lot of non-socialised dogs, working for a shelter, I work with European Wolves and CSWs since a long time. These animals don´t look like a CSW at all, they don´t look like CSV-crosses with European wolves and they don´t react like a badly socialised dog. They may react like a stray dog that never had any positive contact to humans, but this is obviously not the case here according to the photos their owners posted.
Additionaly the breeder told at some point somebody asking they were F3 and they would create a new CSW line. There is no living purebred F3.
If I would have doubted they are crosses before this Expo, I would have changed my mind seeing them live. And it would everybody knowing the breed only take some looks to be sure as well.

Anyway this is going to be cleared on FCI level as different countries are going to complain there.

Ina

Ursula · 06-04-2012, 21:21

That is the most fabulous thing I have read all day! That it is going to be cleared with FCI!! Fantastic!
This is what I am getting at that, things should be cleared up with the officials....

And it is great that you are in the industry ! Well done! So this means that you have loads of experience!

It is good that you have evidence on the fact that this person has said this and that of their dogs, that is what FCI will mostlikely ask for.

Good to get the ball rolling... but evidence and fact is the key.

koboldine · 06-04-2012, 21:44

Thank you, Ursula, for clarifying your point.

This video shows sequences of fear, panik up to stupor to an extend you will only find in dogs which are genetically more afrait of human company, more drawn to live on their own without human interferance. But I see no point in breeding dogs with such a high level of "shyness", because they will always have to live in a human dominated surrounding...

However, badly socialised dogs - been kept at a humans home with contact to a certain group of humans- will still, even in fear, be contactable unless they have been deprived to an extend beyond breaking. So, sure this can be done to "man's best friend" - but I doubt that the owners of the shown dogs mistreat them at home.
Often, the difference is not easy to recognise if one works with dogs living in Human society, because even people aren't used to this kind of behavior.
If one knows or works with CwD with this "personality trait", it becomes more ob obvious - no offence meant.

And...yes...I do work and live with such dogs, and I am glad that at least younger generations of CwD aren't handicaped in this way...

julie9471 · 07-04-2012, 12:34

That of lies... The breeder has never said that these dogs were f3, but are purebreed , Ina it is really necessary to stop the defamation, that you have your opinions, even if they are unfounded ok, but to lie, not at all. It is really necessary to have a very sad life to arrive there.

wolfin · 07-04-2012, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by julie9471

That of lies... The breeder has never said that these dogs were f3, but are purebreed , Ina it is really necessary to stop the defamation, that you have your opinions, even if they are unfounded ok, but to lie, not at all. It is really necessary to have a very sad life to arrive there.

about lie- for you and Ursula they are typical CSV in anatomy and behavior? not need info about F3 when all who a little know this breed, anatomy, genetic, and can read a pedigree see who say true and who lie.

Mikael · 08-04-2012, 00:20

You can also read more about all of this here
>>> http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...27758&langid=1

Yes, I agree it looks wrong to put up a video like this, but the video was not just filmed for no reason...

Best regards / Mikael

06-04-2012, 21:44	#4
koboldine Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 472	Thank you, Ursula, for clarifying your point. This video shows sequences of fear, panik up to stupor to an extend you will only find in dogs which are genetically more afrait of human company, more drawn to live on their own without human interferance. But I see no point in breeding dogs with such a high level of "shyness", because they will always have to live in a human dominated surrounding... However, badly socialised dogs - been kept at a humans home with contact to a certain group of humans- will still, even in fear, be contactable unless they have been deprived to an extend beyond breaking. So, sure this can be done to "man's best friend" - but I doubt that the owners of the shown dogs mistreat them at home. Often, the difference is not easy to recognise if one works with dogs living in Human society, because even people aren't used to this kind of behavior. If one knows or works with CwD with this "personality trait", it becomes more ob obvious - no offence meant. And...yes...I do work and live with such dogs, and I am glad that at least younger generations of CwD aren't handicaped in this way... __________________ Kein Mensch darf mir meine Schwächen so deutlich zeigen, wie meine (Wolfs-)Hunde es tun.

08-04-2012, 00:20	#7
Mikael Scandinavian Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,089	You can also read more about all of this here >>> http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...27758&langid=1 Yes, I agree it looks wrong to put up a video like this, but the video was not just filmed for no reason... Best regards / Mikael __________________ _________________________________________________ Hronec, Rasty, Zilja Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wolfdo...53067971392916

06-04-2012, 19:45	#1
Ursula Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Raahe Posts: 5	Very well put. But that was not what I was getting at. I am in the dog industry, I work with dogs everyday... different breeds. And from my experience you can get a purebred goldenretriever to act like this. You can get any breed or mixed breed to act like this. I was just confirming that this video is not the only "evidence" to prove that these dogs are not purebred. That was my point. I completely understand that breeders are thriving to make the breed better. Which should be done in every breed. (but I also think that breeders in every breed should work more together) But what I see from this video, are dogs that have been negatively socialised or maybe none... The part where the handler grabs the dogs muzzle and is negative towards the dog, with out any reason (or I did not see any reason on this video, maybe i was not able to see the entire situation) but what I saw is that the dog was penalised for acting shy. Which gives the dog more reason to be more aprehensive towards people. I could not tell from this video that they were mixed breeds... and if it makes any difference, neither did my colleagues... But it doesnt make any difference. These are my opinions. and just wanted some clearification on this matter. That is all

06-04-2012, 20:13	#2
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Well, I also work in the "dog-industrie" , I see a lot of non-socialised dogs, working for a shelter, I work with European Wolves and CSWs since a long time. These animals don´t look like a CSW at all, they don´t look like CSV-crosses with European wolves and they don´t react like a badly socialised dog. They may react like a stray dog that never had any positive contact to humans, but this is obviously not the case here according to the photos their owners posted. Additionaly the breeder told at some point somebody asking they were F3 and they would create a new CSW line. There is no living purebred F3. If I would have doubted they are crosses before this Expo, I would have changed my mind seeing them live. And it would everybody knowing the breed only take some looks to be sure as well. Anyway this is going to be cleared on FCI level as different countries are going to complain there. Ina

06-04-2012, 21:21	#3
Ursula Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Raahe Posts: 5	That is the most fabulous thing I have read all day! That it is going to be cleared with FCI!! Fantastic! This is what I am getting at that, things should be cleared up with the officials.... And it is great that you are in the industry ! Well done! So this means that you have loads of experience! It is good that you have evidence on the fact that this person has said this and that of their dogs, that is what FCI will mostlikely ask for. Good to get the ball rolling... but evidence and fact is the key.

07-04-2012, 12:34	#5
julie9471 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 14	That of lies... The breeder has never said that these dogs were f3, but are purebreed , Ina it is really necessary to stop the defamation, that you have your opinions, even if they are unfounded ok, but to lie, not at all. It is really necessary to have a very sad life to arrive there.