Tamaskan CsW crossing

[wolfin]

only tamaskan have falsh hystory ( wolf like dog without wolf blood, but they have sarlos, csv, american wolf mix and who know moore) no have any breeding plan ( only a couple people producing theys dog) any line, any breeding program. Sorry maybe you not like this, but I see this when a few hours sit and read all data basa in tamaskan web page. nice fairytalle, but not very believe in good results.
and yes I agree with Rona 10000%.

[leila]

Originally Posted by wolfin

only tamaskan have falsh hystory ( wolf like dog without wolf blood, but they have sarlos, csv, american wolf mix and who know moore) no have any breeding plan ( only a couple people producing theys dog) any line, any breeding program. Sorry maybe you not like this, but I see this when a few hours sit and read all data basa in tamaskan web page. nice fairytalle, but not very believe in good results.
and yes I agree with Rona 10000%.

this part is the most important in this whole thing... only wolf looklike, no wolf blood!!! so what about creating a new breed or fresh blood??? fresh wolfblood for good look? you are creating mixes, that are not at all tamaskan breed. it should be only dogsg like NO or siberians, who look like wolves, but have NO WOLF BLOOD!

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by leila

you are creating mixes, that are not at all tamaskan breed.

being that the 'registry' approved this cross means that the dogs are currently simply mixed breeds to begin with.. not a breed, anyway.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by leila

this part is the most important in this whole thing... only wolf looklike, no wolf blood!!! so what about creating a new breed or fresh blood??? fresh wolfblood for good look? you are creating mixes, that are not at all tamaskan breed. it should be only dogsg like NO or siberians, who look like wolves, but have NO WOLF BLOOD!

Even being a Finnish breed, wasn't tamaskan a breed selected mainly in UK?!
Sometimes I have the feeling that Tamaskan was made ALSO as a way to hide wolfblooded animals from specific rules that had put "wolfdogs" in "dangerous dog list".
I really dont see any sense in the existence of this so-to-say "breed" .

[yukidomari]

anyway, pointing to 'Jennie' or whomever as Blustag/Blufawn as the source of the inaccuracies/outright lies in the history of these dogs is a convenient 'fall guy', for sure, for the newly-chaired 'TDR', since several members repeated her same claims often enough. For example, why now does the 'TDR' admit that Oskari was indeed used? What changed? Has there been conclusive DNA evidence to refute the previous position? Oskari (Oxbow Leva Neve) has long since passed away, but for many years there was already word that he was the sire of several of the dogs imported from Finland.

And about temperament - the CzW temperament has long been criticized by this group. And now several claim they know the progeny of Oskari and other CzW mixes with temperaments they like, so according to this, not a reason not to cross them. My question - why breed something and hope you DON'T get the associated temperament? Why not breed FOR something you want instead?

And lastly, with the admitted inclusion of wolf's blood, what's the difference between this group of dogs and Saarloos?

[Czertice]

From what I understand, they are trying to create a breed that looks like a wolf, but has the temperament of labrador. A dog for all the people who love wolves, but are not prepared to deal with one in their own house. A dog for all those unhappy/uninformed people who obtain a real wolfdog only to find he is NOT a poodle.

Right now they are at the stage of a wide range of crosses of saarloos, csw, husky, american wolfdog, malamute and whatnot. The temperaments differ accordingly. Those dogs are inbred already, there is no other option than outcrossing or letting yet another wolf-lookalike experiment fail.

There are CSWs mixed in northern sledding breeds already, but I don't see CSW breeders fainting in horror at the impurity of such mixing. Why? Because no one puts up notices of such matings on internet.

Seeing how many such experiments of creating a wolfy dog already happened, we should be glad that there is one underway which is open about the founding animals and shares information with the public. If they succeed in their goal, i suppose there won't be as many people willing to cross CSWs to create the mythical wolfdog without the wolf.

[Puma]

First of all, it has not been 'open', the breeder didnot inform the NVTW, the Dutch Czechsolovakian Wolfdog association, at which the breeder is registered. So 'open' is not that open.

Second, being 'open' doesn't mean being right, is it?

A criminal act in public, is still a criminal act, just to put it in perspective.

To me this is not so mich about the intentions of the Tamaskan side, but all about the intentions of the CSW breeder. And her intentions are purely commercial: making money.

[miran]

Originally Posted by Puma

To me this is not so mich about the intentions of the Tamaskan side, but all about the intentions of the CSW breeder. And her intentions are purely commercial: making money.

Even when you know ( and this breeder also know that) that these mating will not happen when there aren't enough people on the list for the pups?

[Puma]

Originally Posted by miran

Even when you know ( and this breeder also know that) that these mating will not happen when there aren't enough people on the list for the pups?

Especially when the mating will only happen with enough people on the list. That confirms the commercial goal, doesn't it?

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Even being a Finnish breed, wasn't tamaskan a breed selected mainly in UK?!
Sometimes I have the feeling that Tamaskan was made ALSO as a way to hide wolfblooded animals from specific rules that had put "wolfdogs" in "dangerous dog list".

Yes, Paula, I´ve the same feeling. Wolfdogs were banned in the U.K. So it seems that they mixed a bit and called their "wolf-a-like dogs without any wolfblood" Utonagan - a name without any advertising effect. After a little tour to Finland a new name was created: Tamaskan. Sounds better - grin.

I really dont see any sense in the existence of this so-to-say "breed" .

If I understand Puma correctly I should answer with a Liza Minnelli-song

[wolfin]

from my info price for this or others mix are and biger like have pure CSV with FCI pedigree
and why you think not are breeder who thake away puppy free. I know a few breeders, I self thake away for very good owners few puppy free too
but not believe in free tamaskans from this litter or with price include vactination and pet pasport

[Rona]

I see major problem with nomenclature, i.e. what the term "open" means. It used to be the opposite of "secret" but for some people here seems a synonyme of "noble" "honest" or "ethical".

If I said to any of you: "I openly admit that I plan to kidnap and kill your vlcak, becacuse I need its body for an important experiment", would you consider me honest or ethical? Would you excuse such doing or consider it noble? Well, you should, I was being open, unlike many who just steal dogs for such purposes.

If somebody who calls himself a breeder openly plans to take part in the process of breed destruction IMO isn't honest, but cynical (or just ignorant and greedy ).

Whatever the end of the "Stephanie-gate" is, FCI and national KCs should definitely undertake more effective efforts in educating its members, so they would better understand the mission and goals of the organisation and the sense and goals of breeding as such.

[loco]

Originally Posted by Rona

If somebody who calls himself a breeder openly plans to take part in the process of breed destruction IMO isn't honest, but cynical (or just ignorant and greedy ).

......... !!!