SIBO & Inflamatory bowel disease

[nicholas]

Dear all, i would liek to ask your opinion on the following subject. I got my puppy about a month ago. From the forst day i had him he had diarhea. I tried to change his fod but nothing worked. I took hi to the vet, run some tests for EPI and SIBO and Inflamtory bowel disease. He told me that the EPI results came negative but his B12 vitamine is very low which signifies he may have SIBO or an Inflamatory bowel disease in his small intestinal. Does anyone from here ever had a puppy with such a disease? Currently he is 3 and a half motnhs old and he is very skinny. He weighs only 14kg. He is very active but always hugnry and he keeps on eating his diarhoea. If he is diagnosed with this, do you think i should ask the breeder to get him back?

Thank you in advance

Nicholas

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

What tests where made in addition to that? Every chronic form can cause this symptoms. A very, very common reason at the moment are Giardia, has it been tested for that?

Ina

[Nebulosa]

If he is diagnosed with this, do you think i should ask the breeder to get him back?

You have already talk with the breeder about this problem? what was his reaction?!
When the problem be really disgnosticated without doubts you must say about the problem for the breeder, if honest, he will searching for others cases of this disease in the offsprings of the sire and dam as will help you to find good treatments and give a good life for your puppy.
I find really great took the opinion of others 2 differents veterinarians.

A good breeder will not see problems to take the puppy back and find a good home for he... but... if the puppy have problems, you will only change he for a healty puppy or the money back?! like a DVD when arrive damaged for your home?!
So.. will be better the breeder take the puppy back...

[Mirkawolf]

Hello,

you do not name the breeder, but from what you say, I have certain idea about its possible origin. If I am right, ask the veterinarian to run tests on herpes virus. Also ask the veterinarian to run tests on the diarrhoea, to check the bacterias and possible manifestation of worms. The puppy probably needs antibiotics, possibly it will need to be dewormed. But do one thing at a time.

Do not let the puppy eat his diarrhoea. Keep the puppy on diet - best is boiled chicken with rice, forget about the dry food, it will not help. First you need to fix the diarrhoea, then deal with the lack of vitamins. Rice and chicken with help you stop it, together with the proper antibiotics. Then when the puppy feels stronger, you might start adding more things into his diet, or go slowly to dry food diet.

Your puppy is in serious problems, it is not normal for a puppy to be sick like this and the breeder should be exposed for breeding and selling pups in this shape, whoever it is. However, who sells puppies in this shape, probably does not care about them and their fate. You might not see your money back, and they may refuse to take the puppy back. Sorry, it looks like you bought your puppy from a mass producer.

[Rona]

Originalmente publicado por nicholas

I got my puppy about a month ago. From the forst day i had him he had diarhea. I tried to change his fod but nothing worked.

I honestly symphatise with you and even more with your pup for obvious reasons , but just one quick question out of pure curiosity: did you manage to have it delivered to your doorstep as you wanted some time ago when you were planning to get it?

A agree with Mirka: rice blended with chicken should help at the beginning to stop the diarhea and improve the pup's condition. Remember, that the little one desperately needs your help and attention now! Maybe the Fate has sent it to you to help you understand something?

[Liesbeth]

Originalmente publicado por nicholas

Currently he is 3 and a half motnhs old and he is very skinny. He weighs only 14kg. He is very active but always hugnry and he keeps on eating his diarhoea.

Hi,

I also had some troubles with my puppy in the beginning... Try not to focus on his/her weight to much. My puppy weighted only 10kg when she was 3,5 months old and very skinny too. Don't forget to deworm every 2 weeks! Untill the puppy is 6 months old. Very, very important! The chicken and the rice is good. What I tried and what helps a lot to stop diarrea is raw food, but good quality. The kind of beefsteak you would eat yourself, cut in smaller pieces. You can also try to give your puppy the water in which you boiled the rice (rice like Mirka said is good!). Give him this instead of normal water. It stops diarrea. It seems to me that your puppy cannot take al the substances that he needs out of it's food, because the proces is going too quickly. That can be the reason for eating his own feces: they're still full of vitamins and other things... But don't let him eat them My puppy did the same.
Giardia Intestinales seems a possible diagnose, but probably your vet has already checked this? Giardia is caused by a protozoa that gives chronic diarrea. It can affect humans too, so be carefull and always wash your hands when you cleaned up the feces of your puppy...
I don't think it could be Herpes, because your puppy would be death by now. And a puppy of that age usually doesn't have diarrea because of Herpes. They would 'only' have problems with their respiratory system and they could have a sort of rush on their stomac.
As long as the puppy stayes active like everythings alright for him, I think he will be fine. But try to stop the diarrea and deworm him every 2 weeks! A second opinion of another vet would be a good idea. And a chat with the breeder!

Greetings,

Liesbeth

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

In general cooked potatoes are bette than rice in this cases, though rice is the thing people are used to.

[Mirkawolf]

Originalmente publicado por Liesbeth

I don't think it could be Herpes, because your puppy would be death by now. And a puppy of that age usually doesn't have diarrea because of Herpes. They would 'only' have problems with their respiratory system and they could have a sort of rush on their stomac.

Sorry, but I disagree on this.

Herpes causes puppies to die in the first two to three weeks of life, when puppies cannot regulate their body temperature. After three weeks of age the puppies acquire the ability to regulate their body temperature, and to mount a fever response. At that time, the disease no longer causes death, but can cause a respiratory disease.
Herpes infection of the dam which does not result in abortion may result in low birth weight, weak or stillborn puppies. If there are surviving puppies in a Herpes litter, they may or may not have permanent damage to the nervous system, kidney, or lymphoid tissue, much in the way that puppy strangles may damage internal organs and cause problems later in life.

More info on this: http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenl...dvet/vhr2.html
More info on Giardia: http://www.priory.com/vet/giardia.htm

Therefore, I am strongly convinced that the unusually weak puppies with low weight might be caused by herpes, together with possible strong manifestation of giardia or other bacterias, plus maybe worms etc. If all this does not kill the puppy, then of course the puppy is weak and sick. Even part of this all is enough to cause the puppy serious problems.

[nicholas]

I do not want my money back. All i want is a healthy puppy. I have already talked to the breeder and he replied that none of his dogs were sick. Not even his parents. They are all healthy. He said that it might not be any of the diseases mentioned and that he just needs to adapt to his new home.
To answer one question , the puppy was delivered to me by airplane. But i do not see anything wrong about that. I will ask my vet today about the other dieseases mentioned and i will ask again for your help. Thank you very much.

Nicholas

[Liesbeth]

To Mirka about the Herpes: I was only talking about the symptoms you can see when a puppy survived Herpes. So when I said: it 'only' causes respiratory problems and a rush, I ment the visible symptoms... Of course you cannot see damage to nervous system and kidneys etc... not this soon.

But I now why Mirka thinks about Herpes and I think it's good thing to let the puppy run some tests for it! If it is Herpes, you can maybe arrange something with the breeder... Part of your money back, while keeping the puppy or something like that. If it is Herpes, the puppy got infected where it was born, so there's a serious problem going in the kennel of the breeder. It's not because the parents are healthy that there isn't a disease spread in the kennel. How many puppies were there in the litter? Did puppies die in that litter? Can't you contact some other people who have a puppy from the same litter? Ask them if they got any problems...?
This is not 'just stress' I think...


Let us know how things go! Succes with the puppy...

Liesbeth

[Backman]

HI! have your veterinary to check your puppy for pneumonia! My puppy had that when she was 3-4 months and had the same sympthoms, wery skinny always hungry and thirsty, no worms and eating it's diarrhoea..
After 10 days of antibiotics she became more and more normal weight and now she is healthy and happy again.

[nicholas]

I took him top the vet again this morning to give him a shot of B12 vitamin. He ruled out the Herpes issue. It seesm however that he is getting better. Since last Monday he put on 1,5kg and he weighs now 15.5kg. His stool is mixed , half shaped but soft and half like diarhea. With regards to the kennel, the breeder informed that there is nothing wiht the other dogs and puppies. All of them are very healthy. I belive him since he has been very cooperative up to now. The problem is that even if he is sick i do not wish to give him back. I am attached already to him and i want to fight this together. The vet told me that hos treatmetn at the moment is a mild one just in case it is something simple. If he does not get better or completely healthy within the next 2 weeks then he will proceed with strong antibiotics which will mean that he has either SIBO or inflamatory bowel disease. He dewormed him again today and agreed on deworming him for the next 2 motnhs every 2 weeks. I noticed a good sign today. When he did his stool he did not turn around to eat it. SO i have the feeling that we are progressing..

Thank you all for your help.

Nicholas

[Liesbeth]

I hope he will get better!
I'm glad he's making progress...

Good luck!!

[Mirkawolf]

[quote=nicholas;96700] With regards to the kennel, the breeder informed that there is nothing wiht the other dogs and puppies. All of them are very healthy. [/code]

Sure. And what other fairy tales you have been told? If the puppy had diarrhoea from the first day you got him, it came with it. Which means, it was already dispatched sick. Which means the other puppies are probably also sick etc.

[quote=nicholas;96700]
I belive him since he has been very cooperative up to now. [/code]

Of course he was. He made quite some money on you, did not he.

[quote=nicholas;96700]
The problem is that even if he is sick i do not wish to give him back. I am attached already to him and i want to fight this together. [/code]

Unfortunatelly, this is what the breeder counts on. He sells you sick puppy for a price of healthy one, tells you in the kennel is everything all right and it´s your problem. And there you go spending load of money for the vet making the puppy fine again.

This is something people like Rona were warning you against, when you were asking about how to get puppy sent to your doorstep. This is the price for such delivery service.

Anyways, I wish you that the puppy will make it and get healthy and in shape soon. You are obviously on a good way.

[nicholas]

Mirka for your information ( and because you still sound hosyile) let me just tell you that the vet contacted the kennels vet as well as the kennel clusb of that country. He told me that there was no way that the breeder could have known and it is not an inhereted disease or condition.

Nicholas

[Mirkawolf]

Originalmente publicado por nicholas

Dear all, i would liek to ask your opinion on the following subject. I got my puppy about a month ago. From the forst day i had him he had diarhea. I tried to change his fod but nothing worked.

No matter what you think about me, this is what you wrote. If the puppy had diarrhoea from the first day you got it, it must have come with it. There´s no way around it. However, if you preffer the version of your breeder/vet etc., it´s up to you, I don´t care.
If the puppy is having diarrhoea for one full month, it is rather scary and no wonder, the puppy is weak and skinny. I hope your veterinarian will make a stop to it all soon.

[Liesbeth]

But after all: things will turn out good in the end!
It's a good thing your puppy starts to get better!
Now you can finally enjoy your puppy, without being scared that something will happen to him!
So what we forgot to say: congratulations with the new family member!
Do you have some photo's of the little one?? What's his/her name?
Don't forget to share your good/nice experiences too!!

Enjoy your puppy; before you know it, they are all grown up...

Greetings,

Liesbeth

[nicholas]

Thanlk you for the wishes. His name is Tristan. He is very active and always looking for me to pet him. He is very very curious and keeps on bitting things, but not major damages yet. He stops once you shout to him "Don't"! I am still trying to teach hom where to pee etc, but he is too young to realize. He likes chewing a big bath towel and this is his favorite toy. I will share some pics wiht once if you tell me how i can upload them.

Thanks again

Nicholas

[saschia]

Hi Nicholas,

I am glad that the puppy is getting OK and I am also very glad that you proved to be really interested, trying to fight the disease. So I wish you very much luck.

And I am looking forward to seeing your pictures.

[Mirkawolf]

Originalmente publicado por nicholas

I will share some pics wiht once if you tell me how i can upload them.

To upload pictures here into the forum posts, the pictures must be already online somewhere. I suggest you go to http://photobucket.com/ and start an account (join now). It´s free. Then you upload the pictures from your computer to Photobucket. Once they are uploaded, under every picture you´ll see the "url" address of the photos.
Then you go back to the forum here and in your reply, click the little icon of picture (it´s the small square with little mountain and sun on it). It will open a window where you paste the url of the image you want to share with us. If you preview your post, it should show you the photo.

Looking forward to see the puppy