Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[draggar]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Well, you/your wife are in control of Pollux and I don't know if Partha's owner is planning to breed her. It's pretty controllable at this point.. if in doubt, just don't breed them at all?

Technically we're not in complete controll, his "owner" still has full control but I'm sure my wife's opinions and suggestions will carry some weight. It'll be sad if he is a mix, he does have some good qualities (he's goofy in the house, he's very good looking, he does well out on the schutzhund field, I'm sure he'll be a good tracker, etc), he's also starting to be protective of the house, etc.

I'm also trying to make sure I have the right person who owns Partha before I start to talk to them.

[GalomyOak]

While 68 cm is very unusual and certainly I think there are some other untypical features from the Y litter, I guess it's not totally impossible to believe Issar's genetics could have contributed to the height. These dogs, also coming from the lines of Ada Kollorav Dvor, also had unusually (at least to me) tall height:
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7446
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/9857
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/5187
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1919
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1339

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

These dogs, also coming from the lines of Ada Kollorav Dvor, also had unusually (at least to me) tall height:
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7446
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/9857
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/5187
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1919
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1339

And one more
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7663

Yes, they seem to be tall, but height in cases, mentioned before, is not the only feature...

[bogdan]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

And one more
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7663

Yes, they seem to be tall, but height in cases, mentioned before, is not the only feature...

She is pretty tall indeed!
But I don't understand what is wrong about the higher height since there is no limitation in the standard regarding the maximum height?

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by bogdan

She is pretty tall indeed!
But I don't understand what is wrong about the higher height since there is no limitation in the standard regarding the maximum height?

She is 0,5cm smaller in fact And she suits in our bed at our feet just fine And she can only lick my face only when I bend my head down a little - and I am about middle height

In this forum it was said that height can also be a sign of a Saarlos mix - together with other features.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by bogdan

But I don't understand what is wrong about the higher height since there is no limitation in the standard regarding the maximum height?

If I understand correctly, it's puzzling because the bitches in many of CWs breedings barely make the minimum height requirement, and then suddenly there are very tall females from the same lines..

[wolfin]

statistic say all
CSV are breed who size are this :
male about 67-68 cm female about 62-63 cm
this size have almost 80 % ( maybe and moore this better can say elf) dogs in this breed and this size are typical, yes are biger and smaler dogs, but we not can say "CSV are 74 cm size breed" when in statistic this size dogs born have very smal %

sarlos are others - they are biger in standart and biger dogs born in % too.

[Hanka]

Hi Marcy,
you can 100% belive Afaia,Bonifác, Hagga , Farry and Citka are 100% pure czech. wolfdogs. This size is standart size.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Admin

The Crying Wolf kennel was known for years for dogs which hardly reach the minimum size. Now we have mystery litters where dogs grow bigger even than the Czech lines.
The same is visible in France where out of parent of average and above the

(snip)

The size is not the only proof but can be another advice that something is really going on in the mentioned lines.

What's the proof? I'm only asking because we have Pollux, one of Yolka's sons. Size, color, and temperament contribute to suspicion but no proof.

The only evidence I see here right now was in post #130:

Originally Posted by Sona_Bognarova

At present, Issar Kollarov dvor really is in Crying Wolf kennel but I am still his owner. Mating Issar x Flash CW (litter Y CW) happened when Issar was still at my place and when I was present there.

Sona said that Issar was with them at the time of the breeding but it's unclear if that means that they had the breeding at their location (and witnessed it) or that Issar was with them while the breeding allegedly happened somewhere else.

The first scenareo would help justify that Yolka is pure but the second would prove that the pedigree isn't accurate.

I asked for clarification but I haven't heard back.

[admin]

Originally Posted by draggar

What's the proof? I'm only asking because we have Pollux, one of Yolka's sons. Size, color, and temperament contribute to suspicion but no proof.

Yes, that's true. The problem with Crying wolf kennel is that it lost totally its credibility. The lack of will for cooperation makes it more and more suspicious. It is the reason for more and more accusations I receive. The facts are - different look, different characters and bigger sizes of the dogs. Nut it can be still explicable.
What is not explicable are the puppies of Yarl Yanatos Crying Wolf looking for example like a husky-GSD-mix:

It is a mutt for sure - we have to find out where is the problem for such untypical puppies.

Originally Posted by draggar

Sona said that Issar was with them at the time of the breeding but it's unclear if that means that they had the breeding at their location (and witnessed it) or that Issar was with them while the breeding allegedly happened somewhere else.

The first scenareo would help justify that Yolka is pure but the second would prove that the pedigree isn't accurate.

I asked for clarification but I haven't heard back.

It is also my question - if Flash was by Sonia for the whole time of heat the problem is solved. If she was only covered by Issar and the Crying Wolf breeder took Flash back to her kennel - I have my doubts. The cages by CW seems to be in a very bad condition. I'm sure it is very easy for Wolfdogs to break out.

Or: maybe it is not the problem of mating of Issar and Flash but exactly in Flash - as Sibir (the father of "red CsW") is also her son?

I really have no idea- Something seems to be wrong - I hope it will be cleared and the problem will be solved.

[hekate]

Originally Posted by Admin

What is not explicable are the puppies of Yarl Yanatos Crying Wolf looking for example like a husky-GSD-mix:

L’éleveur d'ou provient ce chien fait aussi des berger blanc suisse et a déjà eu des accident de portée entre les deux races. Moi je pense plus a un accident avec un berger blanc plutôt que le fait que Yanatos soit un mix.
http://www.wolfdog.org/fra/dbase/o3394.html

Mais c'est tellement plus facile pour vous de dire que Edit et Frank font des mix que de vous poser les bonnes questions. Mais bon on peut ce demander si vous voulez vous poser les bonnes questions ou bien discréditer tout simplement les élevage qui vous dérange.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Admin

It is also my question - if Flash was by Sonia for the whole time of heat the problem is solved. If she was only covered by Issar and the Crying Wolf breeder took Flash back to her kennel - I have my doubts. The cages by CW seems to be in a very bad condition. I'm sure it is very easy for Wolfdogs to break out.

So Sonia / Sona is the kennel where Issar and Flash were bred?

I really have no idea- Something seems to be wrong - I hope it will be cleared and the problem will be solved.

I do to, the whole future of "American lined" CSVs are at stake here. Pollux is a very good looking dog and his temperament isn't as much of a factor (being the male) since typically 75% of the temperament comes from the mother (and raising).

If he's a mix we'd need to know ASAP but I think right now my wife has decided to not use him in any breeding for now until more facts come out.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by Admin

What is not explicable are the puppies of Yarl Yanatos Crying Wolf looking for example like a husky-GSD-mix:

for me look like husky only

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by draggar

Technically we're not in complete controll, his "owner" still has full control but I'm sure my wife's opinions and suggestions will carry some weight. It'll be sad if he is a mix, he does have some good qualities (he's goofy in the house, he's very good looking, he does well out on the schutzhund field, I'm sure he'll be a good tracker, etc), he's also starting to be protective of the house, etc.

I'm also trying to make sure I have the right person who owns Partha before I start to talk to them.

Hello,

I know Yolka and I know several Saarlos-Mixes, she doesn´t look like one and she doesn´t behave like one. I know for sure that Juri mated Yolka and that she was seperated from other males at this time. The behaviour you decribe from Pollux is pretty common in CSW with his history. A history that started with an 38 hours oversea flight and changing place in a sensible period several times. Saarlos by the way are useless in Schutzhund, not really protectiv and I have never seen one track.

Juri is 72 cm of high, Lorenz Farouk Arimminum is 70 cm, and our bitches tend to produce males with the lowest high of 68 cm till now, they are all big.
If you need an DNA-Test I am very sure that Mariana the owner of Juri will make one for you and I am also pretty sure that Edit will let one have done in for example the Vet Clinik in Budapest if you request one.

So I think it is time to calm down a little bit. I have seen some of the questionable dogs of the Louve de la Louve Blanche kennel and also would be more than interested in an OFFICIAL DNA test, I also would think DNA profiles would be a good thing in general, but I personally don´t think Crying wolf has been involved in this. If they are mixes parents have been exchanged in France, not in Hungary. Size is no proof for mixes, a total change of look in sibblings of different litters or nordic wolf faces or changes in colour is.

Regards
Ina

[Juri Z.P.]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Juri is 72 cm of high, Lorenz Farouk Arimminum is 70 cm, and our bitches tend to produce males with the lowest high of 68 cm till know, they are all big.
If you need an DNA-Test I am very sure that Mariana the owner of Juri will make one for you
Ina

Thanks Ina!

I am very disappointed and sad - to read something here. I'll still take a DNA test-TODAY!!!
And all other tests which we need for the future Juris' children. And to support the work from some few peoples in in the different clubs - and to support the healthy development and future of OUR Dogs.
lg Mariana

[elf]

Well I start to feel a bit sorry to run this topic because there are a lot of deviations written here, let me remind the context:

- the french breeder has 3 red puppies born (she was in the past Saarloos breeder so know very well the topic), she asked help from Edit which refuse everything and at a meeting in Italy even pretended not to know the french breeder.

The french breeder has a part of his kennel ruined because cannot trust anymore on the line choosen (she could also play blind, but did not, you know if such symtomatic event cannot be cleared all we will gain is breeders worldwide will be conforted playing blind next time), it is not fair and this thread is the reaction. We all know that high level regulation would solve a lot, I guess we all know that this will never happened anytime soon or even happend one day, so we need to find out what's going on case by case with the little ways we have left.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Juri Z.P.

I am very disappointed and sad - to read something here. I'll still take a DNA test-TODAY!!!
And all other tests which we need for the future Juris' children. And to support the work from some few peoples in in the different clubs - and to support the healthy development and future of OUR Dogs.
lg Mariana

This is a reaction one would expect from an honest breeder/rep owner who cares about "their" pups welfare and the breed in general. Should all have similar attitude there would be no reason to continue useless conversations and unnecessary arguments...

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Juri Z.P.

Thanks Ina!

I am very disappointed and sad - to read something here. I'll still take a DNA test-TODAY!!!
And all other tests which we need for the future Juris' children. And to support the work from some few peoples in in the different clubs - and to support the healthy development and future of OUR Dogs.
lg Mariana

Yes Mariana this is very good detision like reproductors owner. Not worts but DNA test proofe who is who.
and regards to Juri from my

[Juri Z.P.]

Originally Posted by wolfin

Yes Mariana this is very good detision like reproductors owner. Not worts but DNA test proofe who is who.
and regards to Juri from my

Yes!!!
very important and I hope is more to follow...


Today I have ordered Laborklin to create a DNA profile of Juri. Also for the future Juri's (Zlata Palz) blood is stored at laborklin and it is available for more test requests and - or - direct comparisons of his "children" ect....! Now DNA profile from Juri takes about 2-4 weeks.


thanks and best greetings back from - juri sunshine

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Juri Z.P.

Yes!!!
very important and I hope is more to follow...

Today I have ordered Laborklin to create a DNA profile of Juri. Also for the future Juri's (Zlata Palz) blood is stored at laborklin and it is available for more test requests and - or - direct comparisons of his "children" ect....! Now DNA profile from Juri takes about 2-4 weeks.

thanks and best greetings back from - juri sunshine

Thaaanks We in Lithuania too have DNA tested dogs, and I think in next litter I make DNA profile for male too ( pay self) for futuring DNA profile in pedigree for puppy. Realy great idea breed CSV with DNA profile, this not very big cost but, like see situation who have now, very help for making pure CSV gens maps.