Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

These dogs, also coming from the lines of Ada Kollorav Dvor, also had unusually (at least to me) tall height:
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7446
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/9857
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/5187
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1919
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1339

And one more
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7663

Yes, they seem to be tall, but height in cases, mentioned before, is not the only feature...

[bogdan]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

And one more
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7663

Yes, they seem to be tall, but height in cases, mentioned before, is not the only feature...

She is pretty tall indeed!
But I don't understand what is wrong about the higher height since there is no limitation in the standard regarding the maximum height?

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by bogdan

She is pretty tall indeed!
But I don't understand what is wrong about the higher height since there is no limitation in the standard regarding the maximum height?

She is 0,5cm smaller in fact And she suits in our bed at our feet just fine And she can only lick my face only when I bend my head down a little - and I am about middle height

In this forum it was said that height can also be a sign of a Saarlos mix - together with other features.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by bogdan

But I don't understand what is wrong about the higher height since there is no limitation in the standard regarding the maximum height?

If I understand correctly, it's puzzling because the bitches in many of CWs breedings barely make the minimum height requirement, and then suddenly there are very tall females from the same lines..

[wolfin]

statistic say all
CSV are breed who size are this :
male about 67-68 cm female about 62-63 cm
this size have almost 80 % ( maybe and moore this better can say elf) dogs in this breed and this size are typical, yes are biger and smaler dogs, but we not can say "CSV are 74 cm size breed" when in statistic this size dogs born have very smal %

sarlos are others - they are biger in standart and biger dogs born in % too.

[Hanka]

Hi Marcy,
you can 100% belive Afaia,Bonifác, Hagga , Farry and Citka are 100% pure czech. wolfdogs. This size is standart size.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Hi Marcy,
you can 100% belive Afaia,Bonifác, Hagga , Farry and Citka are 100% pure czech. wolfdogs. This size is standart size.

yes this CSV are PURE CSV like I say - medium size in statistic are about 63-68 cm but can born and smaler and biger dog too.
p.s. but one thing - in FCI standart when read moore ( not only about CSV but others too) size are about 5 cm diferent for male and female
like example if male are 60-65 cm female be 55-60 cm

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Admin

The Crying Wolf kennel was known for years for dogs which hardly reach the minimum size. Now we have mystery litters where dogs grow bigger even than the Czech lines.
The same is visible in France where out of parent of average and above the

(snip)

The size is not the only proof but can be another advice that something is really going on in the mentioned lines.

What's the proof? I'm only asking because we have Pollux, one of Yolka's sons. Size, color, and temperament contribute to suspicion but no proof.

The only evidence I see here right now was in post #130:

Originally Posted by Sona_Bognarova

At present, Issar Kollarov dvor really is in Crying Wolf kennel but I am still his owner. Mating Issar x Flash CW (litter Y CW) happened when Issar was still at my place and when I was present there.

Sona said that Issar was with them at the time of the breeding but it's unclear if that means that they had the breeding at their location (and witnessed it) or that Issar was with them while the breeding allegedly happened somewhere else.

The first scenareo would help justify that Yolka is pure but the second would prove that the pedigree isn't accurate.

I asked for clarification but I haven't heard back.

[admin]

Originally Posted by draggar

What's the proof? I'm only asking because we have Pollux, one of Yolka's sons. Size, color, and temperament contribute to suspicion but no proof.

Yes, that's true. The problem with Crying wolf kennel is that it lost totally its credibility. The lack of will for cooperation makes it more and more suspicious. It is the reason for more and more accusations I receive. The facts are - different look, different characters and bigger sizes of the dogs. Nut it can be still explicable.
What is not explicable are the puppies of Yarl Yanatos Crying Wolf looking for example like a husky-GSD-mix:

It is a mutt for sure - we have to find out where is the problem for such untypical puppies.

Originally Posted by draggar

Sona said that Issar was with them at the time of the breeding but it's unclear if that means that they had the breeding at their location (and witnessed it) or that Issar was with them while the breeding allegedly happened somewhere else.

The first scenareo would help justify that Yolka is pure but the second would prove that the pedigree isn't accurate.

I asked for clarification but I haven't heard back.

It is also my question - if Flash was by Sonia for the whole time of heat the problem is solved. If she was only covered by Issar and the Crying Wolf breeder took Flash back to her kennel - I have my doubts. The cages by CW seems to be in a very bad condition. I'm sure it is very easy for Wolfdogs to break out.

Or: maybe it is not the problem of mating of Issar and Flash but exactly in Flash - as Sibir (the father of "red CsW") is also her son?

I really have no idea- Something seems to be wrong - I hope it will be cleared and the problem will be solved.

[hekate]

Originally Posted by Admin

What is not explicable are the puppies of Yarl Yanatos Crying Wolf looking for example like a husky-GSD-mix:

L’éleveur d'ou provient ce chien fait aussi des berger blanc suisse et a déjà eu des accident de portée entre les deux races. Moi je pense plus a un accident avec un berger blanc plutôt que le fait que Yanatos soit un mix.
http://www.wolfdog.org/fra/dbase/o3394.html

Mais c'est tellement plus facile pour vous de dire que Edit et Frank font des mix que de vous poser les bonnes questions. Mais bon on peut ce demander si vous voulez vous poser les bonnes questions ou bien discréditer tout simplement les élevage qui vous dérange.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Admin

It is also my question - if Flash was by Sonia for the whole time of heat the problem is solved. If she was only covered by Issar and the Crying Wolf breeder took Flash back to her kennel - I have my doubts. The cages by CW seems to be in a very bad condition. I'm sure it is very easy for Wolfdogs to break out.

So Sonia / Sona is the kennel where Issar and Flash were bred?

I really have no idea- Something seems to be wrong - I hope it will be cleared and the problem will be solved.

I do to, the whole future of "American lined" CSVs are at stake here. Pollux is a very good looking dog and his temperament isn't as much of a factor (being the male) since typically 75% of the temperament comes from the mother (and raising).

If he's a mix we'd need to know ASAP but I think right now my wife has decided to not use him in any breeding for now until more facts come out.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by draggar

I do to, the whole future of "American lined" CSVs are at stake here. Pollux is a very good looking dog and his temperament isn't as much of a factor (being the male) since typically 75% of the temperament comes from the mother (and raising).

If he's a mix we'd need to know ASAP but I think right now my wife has decided to not use him in any breeding for now until more facts come out.

Really, I don't even know you or have anything against you, but when you write things like this I really have to wonder why you must use such assumptions and superlatives. I highly doubt that the "whole future" of American lined CsVs are "at stake" because of one imported dog which is not even yours to make breeding decisions with.

Pollux is a very good looking dog to you, which is normal of every co/owner to think their dog looks very good.. but why even think about possibly breeding him or his possible influence on the future when dogs without temperament issues can be imported? Those without questions of pedigree or coming from such an uncooperative kennel. His blood isn't especially rare. Why not just enjoy him as a happy pet, or find him a nice pet home if you're rehoming him, and be happy with that?

PS. It's ridiculous to say that fathers' temperament matters less than mothers'.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Really, I don't even know you or have anything against you, but when you write things like this I really have to wonder why you must use such assumptions and superlatives. I highly doubt that the "whole future" of American lined CsVs are "at stake" because of one imported dog which is not even yours to make breeding decisions with.

Pollux is a very good looking dog to you, which is normal of every co/owner to think their dog looks very good.. but why even think about possibly breeding him or his possible influence on the future when dogs without temperament issues can be imported? Those without questions of pedigree or coming from such an uncooperative kennel. His blood isn't especially rare. Why not just enjoy him as a happy pet, or find him a nice pet home if you're rehoming him, and be happy with that?

PS. It's ridiculous to say that fathers' temperament matters less than mothers'.

The gene pool in the USA is so small that every dog that is considered for breeding has the potential to have a large impact down the line.

Its also not just one dog, Pollux's sister (Partha) is in the USA also plus there are people in Mexico who have quite a few Crying Wolf dogs, maybe in Canada, too.

As for Pollux's temperament, the issues are environmental. He had a horrible trip here to the USA when he was very young (fear period?). Add on the severe neglect he got when he came here (he was kept in an outdoor kennel most of the time). I've seen the "real" Pollux come out and he's a great dog.

As for the mother / father temperament thing, it is safe to say a puppy's temperament is 50% genetic and 50% environmental. The genetic part is easy, statistically 25% will be from the mother and 25% will be from the father. Now, what about the environment? Who raises the puppies from the minute they are born? The mother. You can take a pretty good guess that close to 100% of the environmental temperament will be from the mother. I've seen mother / puppy training at work and when you whelp a litter of puppies you can see the genetic come out in the first day or two but over time a good mother will work with them, you rarely see the father work with the puppies because most of the time they are not from the same breeder as where the puppies were whelped.

As for Pollux being a breeding stud, that's still up in the air. This thread has made us seriously reconsider it (actually more than that, we're pretty much on the "no" side now). But, there are many other factors, hips, elbows, also the DM consideration, etc.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by Admin

What is not explicable are the puppies of Yarl Yanatos Crying Wolf looking for example like a husky-GSD-mix:

for me look like husky only

[*Satu]

The problem is solved by testing the DNA for four generations or more To All litters and if there is mixed dogs. Breeder will pay if the dogs can be found mixed.

Breeder who have litters all a time can´t have money problems.

[monita]

We would like to offer you our help financially or by creating a connection with the MEOE.
MEOE is the abbriviation for Hungarian Kennel Club (of course, in Hungarian language).