Health results (also DM!!) in the Wolfdog.org database

[koboldine]

*gg* which Gaelic dialect do you prefer: irish, scotish, or welsh?

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Then, if there is an dwarf pup in the litter mean both parents might be carrier of the gene, even if they haven't the official results, will it be published?

Maybe I then can ask all the CsW dwarf owners for permission to publish
Sorry just a joke!

I know owners who did not want to harm the breeder (because he/she is a good one and did have bad luck with the combination) And that was the only reason these owners did not want to share the test info.

Also there are owners with "probably dwarfs" , but I'll never publish this without official test results.
This all is for me a very complicated matter......
Because:

I know some people or clubs in several countries still deny dwarfism is an issue in the breed.......
I know there are more CsW's carrier of this mutation then were ever published.....
I know breeders who have (proven) carriers breed with no tested dogs.....

So sometimes I become very sad about this all...........

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by koboldine

*gg* which Gaelic dialect do you prefer: irish, scotish, or welsh?

Madainn mhath, Koboldine.

In that case probably the Scottish version.

Slán,
Michael

[CDaniela]

Originally Posted by Baz

Díky za informace. Je to dobrý nápad, já jsem za Skotska, takže nechci platit ale chci pomoct, oficiální nebo neoficiální, pro mě to jedno...

Na českém foru běží diskuze o DM, koukněte tam. Tady by nás brzy všichni sežrali (za češtinu).

[admin]

Originally Posted by woland77

Yes is wrong to publish data without any title to make this. whether they are related to potential DM or n. There are many dog's with unoficial x rays for dysplasia (good and sick result), we start to publish all?.

Don't you see the difference? Between HD and DM?
The x-ray evaluation is subjective. It depends on the vet who makes it.
Additionally dysplasia is polygenetic (+ environmental influence) - nobody can say which genes the dog have - nobody test it.
So the HD-results of the children say NOTHING (or better said "almost nothing) about the HD-results of the children.

DM and dwarf is something else - a DM/DM dog has its genes not from the air, not thank to the butterlies or bees but "thanks" to the mother and father. Both are DM carriers. The same with N/N results.

Sure people make mistakes - but people work also at the official laboratories. Sure the breeders cheat - but we have presumption of innocence: the majority of the breeders breed according to the rules. The rest - especially the DM test - the "unofficial" can show some cheatings.

Originally Posted by woland77

We spoke aboute normal rules to publish genetic result (good and bad, i ask to remove n/n result to my dogs, you remember it?)...

Yes - and again: if there is no mistake and there is no cheating than the "unofficial" results will be exactly the same like the OFFICIAL results.
IF there will be human mistake then also the official results will not match.

Originally Posted by woland77

No is not the end. Off course lab don't have responsibility about right identification,i never said this..damage is limited if not otherwise regulated by law..This does not mean it does not respond. You must to seek for rules for accreditation (i spoke aboute this, i think is clear)..research institute don't have accrditation to give official result, and research institute don't respond for error (about test, ID is another think)...why? and you want without any accreditation system recognized deduce part or all genotipe of dogs.

You are wrong about the research institutes - the dwarf test are done by a research institute and you GET the certificates.

Sorry but is it not about ACCREDITATION. Yes - the laboratories must have accreditation and must be "responsible" for it. But the are not responsible for HUMAN MISTAKES. If human make mistake you will get "false" results by the puppies. What will do the laboratory? It will NOT loose the accreditation - maybe they will fire the worker who made the mistake. What you and the puppies will reach? NOTHING.

But it is as Daniela and Rona wrote: it is easy to verify the results - it is easy to find out the cheatings and also the mistakes done (also by the official laboratories).

But again - the results basing on the parents and offsprings are not marked "Done by the laboratory Wolfdog" but as "unofficial". You can accept it...or not. Free will. For the breeding it has ONLY good influence.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Maybe we should continue in Gaelic...

Apologies for writing in Czech in the English forum a bit naughty I know, I'm from Scotland but ashamed to say that my Czech is much better than my Gaelic .

Originally Posted by CDaniela

Pokud chcete aby byly vaše výsledky považovány za oficiální, musíte poslat vzorek do některé z akreditovaných laboratoří a samozřejmě ho zaplatit. Pokud vám stačí výsledek neoficiální, přijeďte se psem na jeden z podzimních svodů a bonitací v ČR a nechte ho v rámci výzkumu DM odebrat a otestovat zdarma - s neoficiálním výsledkem.

For those who don't understand Czech, Daniela was saying that it's possible to have your dog tested for free at the Czech club meetings & bonitations this autumn as part of the university study, only the results won't be official. Worth knowing for those of you who are considering travelling.

Originally Posted by CDaniela

Na českém foru běží diskuze o DM, koukněte tam. Tady by nás brzy všichni sežrali (za češtinu).

Ještě jednou, diky za informace Danielo, tam budu koukat.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by mijke

Maybe I then can ask all the CsW dwarf owners for permission to publish
Sorry just a joke!

Mijke, but the DM results of the majority of dogs can be calculated anyway on the basis of their family members' results.
E.g.if the pups owners of certian litter test their dogs, openly publish the results and in that litter the results are n/n, n/dm, dm/dm it is clear that both parents must be n/dm. So it does not matter if the parents' owner publish the results or not - they just become "visible"

Should DWARF test be cheaper and thus more available and common - the effect would be the same - impossiblity of hiding the results by breeders, (unlike in the case of HD or ED)

Thanks to Daniela's project DM result is no longer a taboo, but becomes a "public" issue.

For me struggling for the secrecy of the DM results is ... suspicious. If somebody claims he breeds transparently he should not try to hide them, even if they are unofficial (provided this is clearly stated!)

[Shadowlands]

Originally Posted by Baz

For those who don't understand Czech, Daniela was saying that it's possible to have your dog tested for free at the Czech club meetings & bonitations this autumn as part of the university study, only the results won't be official. Worth knowing for those of you who are considering travelling.

Does anyone have details of these upcoming meetings (or any in other countries, for that matter)?

[CDaniela]

the basic difference between HD, ED and DM:
For dysplasia - we assess (select) phenotype
For degenerative myelopathy - we assess (select) genotype

[koboldine]

a scotts-man... great

tapadh leidh, cuideachd sidh!

hm...das ist reflexiv, oder?

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Does anyone have details of these upcoming meetings (or any in other countries, for that matter)?

I've got some details, 15/10 club meeting & bonitations in Frýdlant nad Ostravicí & 22/10 bonitations in Roudnice nad Labem (I will go there), I think they may be the last 2 dates for "free" tests judging by what has been written in the Czech forum on DM, I'll ask Daniela to clarify though.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Does anyone have details of these upcoming meetings (or any in other countries, for that matter)?

So I've had a look at the calender for the Czech club http://www.cswolfdog.cz/index.php?op...ents&Itemid=54 & it seems that the dates in my previous post will be the last time to take swabs (I'll still check with Daniela though), however if it's just meetings that you're interested in then http://www.cswolfdog.cz/index.php?op...y=17&Itemid=54 might be of interest to you as well. You can try using the translate button at the side of the page, it doesn't do a great job into English but you should get the drift. Here in Czech it's traditional to eat carp as the Christmas meal & every year there is an event with Mr Karel Hartl, for more details contact Lenka, I'm pretty sure that she speaks English & her user name is Marianka W.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by koboldine

a scotts-man... great

tapadh leidh, cuideachd sidh!

hm...das ist reflexiv, oder?

Gälisch, nicht verstehe. Sorry

[Baz]

Originally Posted by CDaniela

Pokud chcete aby byly vaše výsledky považovány za oficiální, musíte poslat vzorek do některé z akreditovaných laboratoří a samozřejmě ho zaplatit. Pokud vám stačí výsledek neoficiální, přijeďte se psem na jeden z podzimních svodů a bonitací v ČR a nechte ho v rámci výzkumu DM odebrat a otestovat zdarma - s neoficiálním výsledkem.

Originally Posted by Baz

For those who don't understand Czech, Daniela was saying that it's possible to have your dog tested for free at the Czech club meetings & bonitations this autumn as part of the university study, only the results won't be official. Worth knowing for those of you who are considering travelling.

It seems perhaps that due to funding reasons, Daniela is primarily interested in Czech dogs (ie dogs resident in the Czech Republic), so I'm not sure if my earlier advice to come to one of the meetings was a great idea. I think the same maybe applies to postal samples too. Daniela can you clarify your position for us please?

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Baz

It seems perhaps that due to funding reasons, Daniela is primarily interested in Czech dogs (ie dogs resident in the Czech Republic), so I'm not sure if my earlier advice to come to one of the meetings was a great idea.

Who told you this? Daniela has tested most of Polish & Lithuanian dogs, also ones from Slovakia and has samples sent from the UK too!

PS Daniela, could you tell us when the stage of gathering samples for the DM study closes? While talking with people I've got the impression many think it'll be open forever, but it doesn't make any sense to me ...

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Baz

It seems perhaps that due to funding reasons, Daniela is primarily interested in Czech dogs (ie dogs resident in the Czech Republic), so I'm not sure if my earlier advice to come to one of the meetings was a great idea. I think the same maybe applies to postal samples too. Daniela can you clarify your position for us please?

I hope not....that's where my sample has gone!!

[CDaniela]

Originally Posted by Rona

Who told you this? Daniela has tested most of Polish & Lithuanian dogs, also ones from Slovakia and has samples sent from the UK too!

Yes, but withim the research degenerative myelopathy, tests are free. We are not a commercial lab, not expose certificate.

[CDaniela]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

I hope not....that's where my sample has gone!!

Still accept samples of foreign dogs.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by CDaniela

We are not a commercial lab, not expose certificate.

"Look not a gift horse in the mouth."

Seriously: we're very pleased with what you've offered the vlcak community worldwide

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Rona

Who told you this? Daniela has tested most of Polish & Lithuanian dogs, also ones from Slovakia and has samples sent from the UK too!

So apologies, I was reading the Czech pages as well as the English & mis-interpreted a post from Daniela where she was trying to encourage more Czech owners to have their dogs tested too & not just foreign owners. I didn't want to "invite" everyone to these events without first checking with Daniela first, that's all.