Photos & co...

[Margo]

Oh, Mirka - I see you already found the answer: We are busy with trading with the puppies and we forgot that our DUTY is to work for others. And when we do not fulfil this everybody has the right to send us angry unpleasant private meesages...

In this case I understand the photos are just a pretext. I respect people that are able to say directly what is the problem without finding any silly reasons to make somebodys life harder. The photos that were added to galleries by me where the photos sent by Belgian and Dutch people to my email address [email protected] or [email protected]. I did not know the people did send the photos to me without asking you for permissions. But I spent few days and went through the WHOLE gallery and removed every single photo with your logo because I have enough of calling me a thief. Maybe I overlooked some photos so If you will find any photo made by you and posted without your permission be so kind and send me an email - i will remove it so fast as possible...
I will also sent separate emails to people which send your photos to me (I'm not sure if I remeber everyone... ). I also promise I will no longer accept new photos with your logo sent by anybody else than you even if the person will get your permission. That way you can be sure the copyright laws of your photos will never be broken again. I really have no time to ask everyone who uploads your photos if he has a special written permission from you that allows it to be published on wolfdog.org.

PS. Before making any new gossips it is better to check the reality...
NO, we are not seeling puppy to Brasil at the moment. Jezebeth has new owner (Nebulosa) since almost one year.
But YES, we have a very nice guest from Brazil at the moment who came to Europe to meet some CzWs and their owners... It is the reason why I will be again not online for next few days....

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Margo

Oh, Mirka - I see you already found the answer: We are busy with trading with the puppies and we forgot that our DUTY is to work for others. And when we do not fulfil this everybody has the right to send us angry unpleasant private meesages...

Yeah. Unpleasant reply also reply. Nice to hear from you.
No, I do not think that your DUTY is to work for others. Neither is our duty to send you photos and informations about our dogs, is it. So if we do something for you, you have to do something for us.. Sorry that´s how it works.

Originally Posted by Margo

In this case I understand the photos are just a pretext. I respect people that are able to say directly what is the problem without finding any silly reasons to make somebodys life harder. The photos that were added to galleries by me where the photos sent by Belgian and Dutch people to my email address [email protected] or [email protected]. I did not know the people did send the photos to me without asking you for permissions.

You know very well, that I am not the only one waiting for replies from you. Yes, I have problems with the photos. Other people have problems with not added litters, dog show results and other informations. I suppose they also only seek to make your life harder, when actually they just want to improve the database informations! On your private website, should I add, yes?

Originally Posted by Margo

But I spent few days and went through the WHOLE gallery and removed every single photo with your logo because I have enough of calling me a thief. Maybe I overlooked some photos so If you will find any photo made by you and posted without your permission be so kind and send me an email - i will remove it so fast as possible...

You are being ridiculous. Photos with the copyrights on it are of no concern to me, that´s why they have the logo on it. Erasing photos with copyright, and especially those sent by me, is rather silly way how to act.

If you´d bother really reading my e-mails or messages, you´d know very well, that I spoke about NOT-COPYRIGHTED photos, on which were pictured often shy or problematic dogs (for example from our Belgian bonitation). I do not want to be acused by owners of these dogs, that I show their dogs troubles on Wolfdog.org.
Another case is photos from Litomerice dog show, which I am sure I did not submit, but they appeared here.

And you know very well, that I am not the only person, who has troubles with photos stolen, or lets call it taken from their website without permission. When we used to co-operate with WD and submit photos for you through the painfully difficult and elaborated process, we were getting numerous e-mails from people, who did not send photos to you (or Wolfdog.org) and yet photos from their kennels were appearing in the galleries. As we also were not getting replies from you about this, we gradually went rather tired of supporting Wolfdog.org and its practices.

Originally Posted by Margo

I will also sent separate emails to people which send your photos to me (I'm not sure if I remeber everyone... ). I also promise I will no longer accept new photos with your logo sent by anybody else than you even if the person will get your permission. That way you can be sure the copyright laws of your photos will never be broken again. I really have no time to ask everyone who uploads your photos if he has a special written permission from you that allows it to be published on wolfdog.org.

Yeah. Nothing so good as beating the poor owners of the dogs, who send you copyrighted photos. Good job.

Originally Posted by Margo

PS. Before making any new gossips it is better to check the reality...
NO, we are not seeling puppy to Brasil at the moment. Jezebeth has new owner (Nebulosa) since almost one year.
But YES, we have a very nice guest from Brazil at the moment who came to Europe to meet some CzWs and their owners... It is the reason why I will be again not online for next few days....

Sure. As if it did not mean, that the dog will leave with her to Brazil. You are not trying to make me believe, she´s gonna own the dog long-distance for ever, are you.

It´s actually sad, that by your ignoring my e-mails and messages we have to discuss this publicly, like some silly gossipers. I have searched ways to solve this calmly and privately, but eventually direct public approach unfortunatelly appeared to be the only one, that worked. By the way you act though, it is not me who is beaten up on your decision, but the poor owners of dogs, who sent you copyrighted and therefore APPROOVED pictures.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

Sure. As if it did not mean, that the dog will leave with her to Brazil. You are not trying to make me believe, she´s gonna own the dog long-distance for ever, are you.

Maybe she want's metting the owner of the dog before the dog leaves for be sure that the owner are prepared for that?
Maybe as any good breeder must she was worried about send the dog far for who she not know personally?
Maybe because she is a experienced breeder who know that some people write very beautifull and correct things but in truth don't do what talk as we can comonly find in this forum for exemple?

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

Latest news, as far as I know, is "Z Peronowki" selling puppy to Brazil.

Now, is only tink a little bit, isn't this attitud ricidulous?

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Now, is only tink a little bit, isn't this attitud ricidulous?

Not at all. You do?

But I find Margo´s attitude very ridiculous, for sure.

First, because we used to be long-termedly helping Wolfdog - my husband was moderator for the French forum, he did translate the whole site into Spanish, he and me we were adding photos for the galleries and so on. Obviously we did all this just to make her life harder (and because we had nothing better to do with our time, of course.)
But when the same people ask unpleasant questions, now that is problem.

Second, because Margo does not understand the meaning of copyright protected photos.

Third, because so far every dog that I remember photographing and I checked his/her gallery has still in it my photos - the copyrighted ones.
So it seems to me, that it is exclusively my dogs, who´s photos were erased. Obviously asking unpleasant questions has to be punished.

Perhaps, instead of spitting around poisonously, would be better to ask oneself, why people, who helped me for months and spend enormous amount of time doing it now changed attitude.

Discussing this publicly is stupid and derogating and also ridiculous, when it could have been fixed through few e-mails months ago. I have seen now Margo´s attitude and gratitude and that´s enough. My e-mail and PM´s are known to all WD admins, so there we can talk.

[massimo]

instead i absolutely do not care about photos...
everybody knows the pics I publish are totally free to be used and I already authorised Margo to use them as she wanted.
What I would like is, kindly, a reply to my messages, that's all.
It is a matter of courtesy, specially to those who, like me I think, have contributed to make improve this site with info, pics...

And...I do not care if you sell puppies in Brazil or Australia or Japan.....
i would likt to participate to make the site and database better...that's all.

But it's definitely true that lately the site has been left behind.

Massimo

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

Neither is our duty to send you photos and informations about our dogs, is it. So if we do something for you, you have to do something for us.. Sorry that´s how it works.

Mirka - I think nobody is so naive to say that breeders and owners send us photos, information, litter advertisments and show results to make US happy... To help US...
NO! They do it because they profit from it - in different ways... They aleady profit that the web site exists.... They have the chance to show their dogs, achievements and daily life with dogs...
So sending photos and informations about your dogs is no your duty or something what you do for ME. You do it for YOURSELF!

Sure we are happy Wolfdog.org is getting bigger and developing. Also thanks to people which make something not only for themself but also for others. There are people who help us sending information not only about their own dogs. And they make it voluntarily. They never complain, they never criticize or scold someone. They just help...

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

Yes, I have problems with the photos. Other people have problems with not added litters, dog show results and other informations.

So it is our DUTY, right...?
You know - I think we are the only people on Wolfdog which will never give up... But there were so many people which were helping us before but they stopped. Why? Exactly because the attitute of some people "YOU MUST DO THIS! IT IS YOUR WORK! You are the MODERATOR! HURRY UP!".

Please really STOP IT. We lost about 5 moderators because of it... I hope we will not loose more... Remember WE and other MODERATORS are people which make something voluntarily. Everyone of us has private life, own dogs and own problems. And people have to respect it. If someone do not agree with it - there are two solution:

1) Nobody is forced to use Wolfdog.... Everybody has free will...

...OR...

2) There is a great rule not only in the internet: YOU GET WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR.
What you pay for Wolfdog? NOTHING. What you can expect.....? So ENYTING is done here by moderators or administrators is just BONUS...

If we will all decide we want someone who will answer ALL questions very fast, will talk to all people and sit whole day adding the information - no problem. We can make a fund and employ computer technician who will sit here 8 hours a days, 5 days a week... But I'm affraid if the people which are so loud now will be prepared to add to this fund even 100 EUR every month...

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

And you know very well, that I am not the only person, who has troubles with photos stolen, or lets call it taken from their website without permission. When we used to co-operate with WD and submit photos for you through the painfully difficult and elaborated process, we were getting numerous e-mails from people, who did not send photos to you (or Wolfdog.org) and yet photos from their kennels were appearing in the galleries.

No, Mirka. Again it is not true. If we get information any photos are published without asking the author for permission they are removed VERY FAST. It is VERY EASY way: it is enough to send us URL of the photo and the photo will dissapear. Who tried it saw it is working very fast. So again: copy URL -> email to WOLFDOG -> photo REMOVED

Even if this topic is published, even if there are rules for publishing photos there willbe ALWAYS cases copyrighted photos will appear in the galllery. Why - because as I wrote - it is not possible to see who took the specific photo... So the only way is to write us when someone will see HIS OWN photos (taken by HIMSELF) which was published without his permission...

But remember I'm not a fairy - if I get a information "some photos of my dogs must dissapear because they were published without my persmission" I will not remove them besause HOW should I know WHICH photos should we remove. The other problem is: people want sometimes to remove photos taken by someone else. They do not understand they CAN NOT ask for it because they are not the "onwners" of the photos...

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

Yeah. Nothing so good as beating the poor owners of the dogs, who send you copyrighted photos. Good job.

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

By the way you act though, it is not me who is beaten up on your decision, but the poor owners of dogs, who sent you copyrighted and therefore APPROOVED pictures

?!?! I do not understand you. First you are calling me a thief because I added some copyrighted photos added by the people. Now you are attacking me because I removed them...? HOW should I see which photos you APROOVED? And which not? If I will leave some photos which were not added by you how can I be sure you will not call me a thieft next week?????

OK, I leave it... It really shows the whole photos-gate is just a pretext... I do not care for the hidden reason - I know them already... So please we can concentrate on the problem with the photos. Some owners were so king to send us links to more copyrighted photos with your logo and we removed them. If you same there a some more please send me the URLs and I promise you the will be also removed immediately...

[Gaga]

Margo - my advice is: remove all signed Mirka’s photos, and if Mirka wants she may always send back some of them, selected by her and everything will be OK. I don’t see any problem.
The photos that are not signed are put into base according to principle: I give to the base to be used by other people. This is our common good, done by us for and for us.
As long the base exists thanks to people sending photos spontaneously it is interesting and reliable. In Poland we owe most to Przemek. It was him who put thousands of pictures made by him into the database. He didn’t sign them but thanks to him we had lots of photos of wolfdogs in natural movement.Why?

The more new owners there are in Poland the more photos we have in the dadabase, but few years ago only Przemek made them.
I’m happy he does not ask to remove his photos , because the first years of shows, camps and trainings would be empty
If somebody thinks that his photos need advertising on the forum or that they are too good for us I think we will survive this.
But the best pictures are the document the dogs on the move and in action. And we have loads of them, so we’ll survive without a few signed.