Health of the breeds

[mijke]

I don't know Rocco, I do not pretend I am a CsW expert, I am not involved in any group or experiment, but... based on genetic rules I agree with this:

Originally Posted by rocco

SAW are now more imbreed than CZW - SAW have smaller population than CZW, but CZW is all consanquinity too and I afraid it maybe problem in future........Health problems in CZW are increasing.

Comparing with other (older) breeds the CsW does not have a big gene poule (which CsW has for example not Rep in his ancestors?)
On this moment I know some incidental health problems in CsW breed that were in the past also “incidental” in Saarloos breed.
So I think we all have to register and share honest the health info about the breed.

Originally Posted by Hanka

In Czech republic work "breed comission" what watch population of wolfdogs. We know,if some lines, families have some health problems, we care for more dogs in bloodlines, where is less males, females.
How much clubs in Evropa do the same? I think nobody. Who care about all population? I think nobody.
We TRY to keep breed on good health level. Of course, some dogs can have problems now and in the future, but we try care about it very well.
And after it I can read in forum: "yes, wolfdog have problems".....Why theese clubs don´t delete dogs with problems out from breeding????
Why "breeders" use really every wolfdog for breeding? No selection? No care about breed? So- what will be future of breed in Evropa?
.

But when there is hardly any (public) health info for CsW breeders outside CZ it is very difficult to breed in the right way! I understand what you are writing about some clubs and breeders outside CZ. But I think there are also more breeders like me, who really care about the future of the breed and want to breed in a good way. But for them it is difficult, because they don’t have all the info you have in CZ.

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

Because as you could read before, dogs are business And at the end of the day, for many of "breeders" it is all about the money.
Just look at the adds even here on Wolfdog.org - how many announced litters from abroad have both parents x-rayed? Not to mention bonitated?

For some breeders, titles are also more than character of the dogs. And the judges are inexperienced with the breed, they often compare CSW with Saarloos, believeing it is normal it is shy And don´t expect the owners or breeders of shy dogs tell the judge otherwise, so the shy dog gets title and the circus gets rolling... Who cares, that shy dog will produce only other shy dogs, and that titles won´t matter in normal life with a dog who is scared of its own shadow! It´s business, no?

And about the clubs, well ... let´s say that many of breeders who breed like this, are actually members of board of some of these clubs? So what do you think, can change?

I agree that there are breeders and clubs like you mentioned. So I am glad you are a member of the board of the Belgium club. Maybe your club can change the impression that all clubs and breeders in west Europe don’t want the best for the breed.

Originally Posted by rocco

Both breeds have health problems - wild animals have problems too, but nature selection is more hard than breeders.

And I agree with this. Nature selection is not only more hard, but also in nature genes will be more spread. And the missing of these two facts are the reason why there are so much problems in several breeds.
But when breeders in several countries will share honest health information and will work together, a lot of breeds will have a better future!

For example In the saarloos breed some people did make a good start with making a DNA database for the breed (and so in future they can better look for DNA markers for genetic problems). In Holland I did ask the Dutch CsW club to start a breeder discussion about the possibilities for a CsW DNA databank. And I hope that in future there will come an international DNA database for CsW.

[elf]

There is an easy start, let's create a site which would collect CSW health information worldwide. Each club, breeder, owner, could put CSW health information gathered. This site could also be useful if a CSW statistical study on a specific point is needed at a moment, collecting informations just by filling a form. Etc ...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

The German Club offered this some years ago, we have a breeding software that makes it easy. As far as I know no answer.

Ina

[elf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

The German Club offered this some years ago, we have a breeding software that makes it easy. As far as I know no answer.

Ina

I guess the beginning would be the most difficult, then we could maybe have a "snowball" effect. As a start we would need one person for each country who will collect what the national club already gathered. For example, some months ago the Dutch club focuses on heart trouble, how far they went in their investigations ?
And so on ... this would be a good starting point (we could then add DNA profile, statistical studies etc...). Does the "community" is ready for that or should we wait the breed become in a difficult situation ?

[GalomyOak]

I think that is an excellent idea - hopefully owners would be open and honest when they have a dog with an undesirable health trait, even if they hvae no intention to breed their dog.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by wildenmorgen

I think that is an excellent idea - hopefully owners would be open and honest when they have a dog with an undesirable health trait, even if they hvae no intention to breed their dog.

Yes but only in the DREM WORLD a breeder would tell the WOLFDOG WORLD that thay have a bad bood line ore dead puppies in there last litter, eaven if it should be god fore the breed it would be bad fore there cash flow.

only a smal prosentage would be truthful.

SAD BUT TRUE

Regards / Mikael

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes but only in the DREM WORLD a breeder would tell the WOLFDOG WORLD that thay have a bad bood line ore dead puppies in there last litter, eaven if it should be god fore the breed it would be bad fore there cash flow.
only a smal prosentage would be truthful.

Hej Mikael,

what a pessimistic point of view from the north - lol.
Even if only the optimists answer Anthony´s questions it would be a base

hälsning
Angelika

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes but only in the DREM WORLD a breeder would tell the WOLFDOG WORLD that thay have a bad bood line ore dead puppies in there last litter, eaven if it should be god fore the breed it would be bad fore there cash flow.

only a smal prosentage would be truthful.

SAD BUT TRUE

Regards / Mikael

Yes, but this small prosentage is still much better than NOTHING

[elf]

Originally Posted by elf

I guess the beginning would be the most difficult, then we could maybe have a "snowball" effect. As a start we would need one person for each country who will collect what the national club already gathered. For example, some months ago the Dutch club focuses on heart trouble, how far they went in their investigations ?
And so on ... this would be a good starting point (we could then add DNA profile, statistical studies etc...). Does the "community" is ready for that or should we wait the breed become in a difficult situation ?

Any updates ?

Would be great to have something like that: http://www.vetsci.usyd.edu.au/lida/index.php?Pg=2

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by elf

Any updates ?

Would be great to have something like that: http://www.vetsci.usyd.edu.au/lida/index.php?Pg=2

Yes something like that would be good in a short distance future, I think !!! But can any body tell me which diseases we are to look fore ???
sens I do not intend to wait, I plan to do a DNA test -09, but do not know which diseases that are most common on CsV.

Regards / Mikael

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

As far as I know no answer.

at least o n e answer, Ina - mine

[Hanka]

Ideal will be: in every country can be really working breedcommision in club. It will watch population and it will collect results of X-ray and write list of some defect in population. AAAAnd: for example it will watch, how much males, females is in every bloodline. I know, it is a little sci-fi. But we can have dream to have minim. 5 males in every group. So- every country can help with saving of breed.....
Is it really possible?

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Angelika

at least o n e answer, Ina - mine

they had answers from me too but there was none from outside Germany and not enough from inside (though several).

Ina