Taabernakkelin kennel

[Mikael]

Originariamente inviata da *Satu

5 emails but Elys spod Bumbiera have still wrong HD results!!!
and rest but Now i can say .This is only oneperson webpage!

Satu as you apparently do not answer your own e-mail box. I would not complain about others I did send you tree e-mail, NO answer on about 6 month now !!!

And if I was you I would not complain at all about wrong HD data on WD.org as you did not complain about the wrong A/A data on Sleeping Storm, when she in fact did not have any official HD result at all !!!

Maybe you can put your energy on sending an answer to the Finish Kennel Club or Margo about that instead ??? As you apparently not answer them neither

Elys HD result C/C or C 2/2 is the same to me and only a small error compared to Sleeping Storms A/A to X = No HD result, Or don’t you agree ???

You do not have to answer here you can answer to Fkk about it
And if you do not !!! Taabernakkelin will get her own topic

Very best regards / Mikael

[*Satu]

To swedish specialist:

Sorry. In my ebox I don´t have any emails from you.

You last email in my box is 2008-06-23 23:16.



You had have my address and phone number also....



About Sleeping Storms X-rays photos you have answer from Suski.



You have taken contact to fin kennelclub and next time when you take
contact there again, you can ask about imported dogs eye results where
they are....



About your complaning. You ask 100% money back from me. If I pay 100%
money back ,dog is mine...But you have thinking that before you request?
You have nice purebreed dog which had been absolutely too fat in young
age.( you have judgement)



I think you dog is also healthy ( not any bad healthy problems)

epilepsy, testicle problems or agressivity problems?


So good luck for your future breeding!

[Mikael]

To swedish specialist: from Satu at Taabernakkelin.

I did not say I was a specialist, I only ask for the official HD result on Sleeping Storm, as you did sell 13 CsV puppy’s here on WD.org whit the HD result A/A, but you do in fact not have a official x-ray at all, I have ask you about this in your e-mail box many many times now, but NO answer !!! And way do you not answer to me, Margo or the Fkk about it ???

Sorry. In my ebox I don´t have any emails from you.
You last email in my box is 2008-06-23 23:16.

Very strange as you did answer my last e-mails
2008-10-29
2008-10-28
2008-10-14
2008-07-14
2008-07-13
2008-06-24
And I have all answers in my mail box…
But you did not wont to answer on the tree last e-mail !!!

HERE IS THE LAST…

e-mail from Mikael to Taabernakkelin kennel

Satu

I do not se this as a complicated question,
either you have official HD results on Sleeping Storm or not ???

Either way I demand an answer !!!

If you do not answer me by Monday, I will have to call Fkk my self
and ask way her result is missing in there database.

Regards / Mikael

About Sleeping Storms X-rays photos you have answer from Suski.

Yes, but Suski did not sell or lay about the HD result to any puppy buyers, YOU DID !!!
And YOU had the false results here on WD.org as you did sell your pappy’s !!!
Margo can confirm this info !!! as she did later change the result from A/A to X on Sleeping Storms after she did receive e-mails from at least 3 puppy buyers, and double check the info whit Fkk !!!

You have taken contact to fin kennelclub and next time when you take
contact there again, you can ask about imported dogs eye results where
they are....

I did talk to Fkk yesterday about your non reply tactic, but way would I ask about the eye tests ???
Is there something wrong whit Sleeping Storms eyes ???

About your complaning. You ask 100% money back from me. If I pay 100% money back ,dog is mine...But you have thinking that before you request?

My request is that you get official HD result on Sleeping Storm !!!
And if she has bad hips, I will demand ALL money back, but only if !!!
As I did buy a dog from A/A parents for 2400 Euro that is what I wont !!!
But NO you will newer get the dog back !!!

You have nice purebreed dog which had been absolutely too fat in young
age.( you have judgement)

Now you get childish as you always get when you are in trouble !!!
My two vets did say he was perfect at that age, and the show judges like very skinny unhealthy dogs.
But you all can judge here : www.wolfdog.se/gallery/hronec-taabernakkelin Is he fat or not ???

I think you dog is also healthy ( not any bad healthy problems)

I do hope he his !!! but I will do his HD x-ray when he is 24 month as the vet recommends, but this is not about his hips, its about that you did sell 13 pup’s to about 10 buyers that did believe that Sleeping Storm was A/A, and now we do not know if she is ??? maybe she is C/C or D/D ??? WE DEMAND A OFFICIAL HD RESULT !!!

So good luck for your future breeding!

Thanks, and you can help me by get Sleeping Storms HD result on the pedigree, as it is now missing !!!

Regards / Mikael

[*Satu]

Sorry Mikael but who talk about shit now?

[Mikael]

Originariamente inviata da *Satu

Sorry Mikael but who talk about shit now?

About what ??? as I can prove all I say by old e-mail, and old prints from WD.org…

And as people that did by a puppy from you and Margo can confirm the false HD result !!!

And everybody can NOW se in the database that Sleeping Storm has NO HD result, not A/A or A(0/0) but " data not available" se here : http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/3616

And maybe you can tell me way her Bonitation code is now X ???

BUT WHAT IS THE PROBLEM ??? IS IT SO HARD TO SEND THE X-RAY TO GET A OFFICIAL RESULT ??? OR DO YOU KNOW SHE IS NOT A/A AND THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM ???

And as you can send that X-ray to other country´s then Finland I do not se ANY excuse at all !!!

TELL ME WHAT YOU WONT ME TO PROVE, AND I CAN PROVE IT TO ALL ONLINE !!! HERE ON WD:ORG !!!

Regards / Mikael

[*Satu]

yes you can do what you want...

You can ask thous x-ray photos from Suski but i think she doesn´t help you.

And you can cry also that I have sold many dog whitout money at all...

Every breeder can say own price. That can be 0-100000e if they want.
Hronsek is HD clear whitout any fat.

Can you read you dog pedigree there is many dogs whitout any official healtyresults.

[Mikael]

Originariamente inviata da *Satu

yes you can do what you want...

You can ask thous x-ray photos from Suski but i think she doesn´t help you.

And you can cry also that I have sold many dog whitout money at all...

Every breeder can say own price. That can be 0-100000e if they want.
Hronsek is HD clear whitout any fat.

Can you read you dog pedigree there is many dogs whitout any official healtyresults.

It is not about the price, its about that you did sell puppy’s from A/A parents, but you did not have a official HD result on Sleeping Storm at ALL. And I demand to get what I did pay you fore…

It is called FALSE MARKETING and is ILLEGAL in Finland and probably in EU to !!!

It is also ILLEGAL to use unofficial HD result on pure-bred by Fkk and FCI !!!

You are a member of Fkk and FCI, or are you not ???

YOUR ANSWER IS THAT YOU WILL NOT GET THE OFFICIAL X-RAY ON SLEEPING STORM ??? Even if you did sell 13 puppy’s as coming from a A/A female !!!

I guess this say all about you and your kennel !!!

And way would I ask Suski about the x-ray on your dog ??? She has nothing to do whit that you did sell puppies on WD.org whit Sleeping Storm as A/A, THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM NOT HER´S !!!

/ Mikael

[Mikael]

Originariamente inviata da *Satu

You can ask thous x-ray photos from Suski but i think she doesn´t help you.

Thanks by the way fore telling everybody the truth !!!

That you did sell puppies here on WD.org as coming from A/A parents, but you in fact do not have any x-ray at ALL on Sleeping Storm, and the only one that has a unofficial result is Suski !!!

Now everybody knows that what I say is the truth and not just bull shit as you did say !!!

Best regards / Mikael

[Wolfsirius]

This case is between you two, but i just want to say, for future,
that please do not ever buy any dog only with info gave by internet.
(especially in any unofficial page) There is ALWAYS official paper about healthy records, if official tests exist.
If i am looking for something for myself, and i want for sure some things from it, i will ask official papers about that, always. Even, i want to trust people who i work with, but black on white is the best way to prove everything, and then is not indistinct anything. I hope you can clear your differences somehow, is nonsense to fight and blame each others in forums. Is very shame that in every breed is lot of disagreement between people.

-Suski

[Vaiva]

Originariamente inviata da Wolfsirius

This case is between you two, but i just want to say, for future,

Well, no, it is not just between them, guess all CZW owners and breeders are interested about things like this happening in various kennels. So the question is "does the dog have an official x-ray results or not?" And the answer is still missig...

[Mikael]

Originariamente inviata da Wolfsirius

This case is between you two, but i just want to say, for future,
that please do not ever buy any dog only with info gave by internet.
(especially in any unofficial page) There is ALWAYS official paper about healthy records, if official tests exist.
If i am looking for something for myself, and i want for sure some things from it, i will ask official papers about that, always. Even, i want to trust people who i work with, but black on white is the best way to prove everything, and then is not indistinct anything. I hope you can clear your differences somehow, is nonsense to fight and blame each others in forums. Is very shame that in every breed is lot of disagreement between people.

-Suski

This is not only between Satu and me !!! its about her and 10 puppy buyers to !!!

It is also about a false result here on WD.org !!!

And as Satu did not answer on PM to me or Fkk on many many month, this is her choice of talking about this not min !!! I gave her ALLOT of chances to answer !!!

And yes I did trust Satu and the result here on WD.org just as Margo and ALL puppy buyer I did talk to !!!

And even if we would ask, the papers are in Finish, therefore I trusted Satus word for it, as I do not know any Finish !!!

And I did not think Satu was ILLEGAL !!! but I guess I was wrong !!!

But I do not se way she refuses to get a official x-ray if now Sleeping Storm is A/A fore real !!!

Best regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

Originariamente inviata da Vaiva

Well, no, it is not just between them, guess all CZW owners and breeders are interested about things like this happening in various kennels. So the question is "does the dog have an official x-ray results or not?" And the answer is still missig...

The answer you can se here by Suski from another topic...

Mikael; the dog i think you are speaking about is x-rayed, and x-rays is here by me, (still) even the dog is not owned by me. Vet took the x-rays , and we didn't send it to kennelclub...
/ Suski

And as Satu say that is the only x-ray photo there is of Sleeping Storm !!! She has NO official x-ray result !!!

Finish Kennel Club also say Sleeping Storm has NO official x-ray result !!!

I do not know way Satu did use this HD result as official here on WD.org as she do not answer either me or Fkk !!! And I do not think she has answer Margo about it neither or any other puppy buyer...

Sad but true / Mikael

[jennyw1]

I was the owner of one pupp from this combination also after Wolfsirius Sleeping storm but Tabeernakkelin Jelenie had to put to sleep because illness with stomac short time after i had her.
I also belived in Satus word after visiting her before decide to buy a dog from her she said "No HD on my dogs" and i cant read Finish so i did not askt to see any paper on that i could not read it anyway and the trouth is comming out in the end anyway but then the dog are allready paid and loved with or withoute Hd but still i have in my mind i paid for a dog after no Hd parents but did i only got foled?One dead dog and also foled!

This angry and sad diskussion is realy shows that Satu have no good answer to this and what kind of breeder is that?
And she blame the dog owner if she can when she should support instead. When my pup was sick i did all wrong she said and when she talkt to the vet how treat the pup the vet did all wrong and Satu never do anyting wrong!

Where are the rest of this dog owners with dogs after Sleeping storm in this diskussion?What are they thinking about this?

Jelenie In memeory!

[Mikael]

Originariamente inviata da jennyw1

This angry and sad diskussion is realy shows that Satu have no good answer to this and what kind of breeder is that?

And she blame the dog owner if she can when she should support instead. When my pup was sick i did all wrong she said and when she talkt to the vet how treat the pup the vet did all wrong and Satu never do anyting wrong!

I agree !!!

And you ALL can read more about how much support Satu did give Jenny here...
>> http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8907

/ Mikael

[hanninadina]

Sorry, Mikael, it is(!) a thing between you and Satu, as Suski already wrote. It is a mess that you are pointing it out here in the forum. As Suski wrote, wolfdog.org is not an official csw side! You can find it in italy there there are all datas official in internet to see.

So, if I am interested to get a dog for breeding or whatever, I get an impression here. But, if I don´t know the persons and their dogs I will go further and look for official papers and if I don´t understand the language I will translate if I think it is sooo improtant for me!

Satu thinks that her dogs are all free of hd and healthy. So it is her opinion. No one could be save that all his dogs are free of any kind of illness. It is an animal, it is nature. And sometimes things happens which we don´t can see in advance.

You are a beginner in the world of csw. So as a beginner you have to inform yourself. Normally one goes to the breeder and looks at his kennel and of course the dogs. And than goes to another breeder for having some comparison. Or if you don´t do that you are satiesfyd with the first one. But you can not blame people if things happen which are for you so important but not for the breeder. I don´t know if it is allowed to breed in Finland with csw without official HD-results. It seems to me, but you will tell me how it is. I know that in italy you only need papers for csw and you can do what you want. No bonitation, no HD-results, no show results. The big and good breeders will have of course all. But there are so many black sheeps.

So if it not necessaey to have official HD-result, it is your own work to ask if Satu had offcial had result. You wrote by yourself that you did not ask that for! Satu knew from first HD lok which Suski did, that there will be no hd. And for her it was enough.

So please it is a thing between you, maybe if some other puppy buyer has problems, for them, but it nothing for us all!

You did read her here there are breeders who breed with male csw who does not have bonitation and are not allowed to breed. These points are main points but not what you are talking about. Still today there are no official hd-results from these two litters from Sleeping and what for are you complaning for in this moment?

And by the way you did not answer my eMail from a few weeks ago either!

Christian

[Mikael]

Sorry, Mikael, it is(!) a thing between you and Satu, as Suski already wrote. It is a mess that you are pointing it out here in the forum. As Suski wrote, wolfdog.org is not an official csw side! You can find it in italy there there are all datas official in internet to see.

First it was here on the forum that the false result A(0/0) was used, and ALL puppy buyer that I did talk to did think Sleeping Storm was HD A, and secondly I ask Satu to answer to Fkk not here read post #1 !!!

So, if I am interested to get a dog for breeding or whatever, I get an impression here. But, if I don’t know the persons and their dogs I will go further and look for official papers and if I don´t understand the language I will translate if I think it is sooo improtant for me!

Yes in the future I will, however I did ask Satu in person to, and she did say she only breed on A/A dogs

Satu thinks that her dogs are all free of hd and healthy. So it is her opinion. No one could be save that all his dogs are free of any kind of illness. It is an animal, it is nature. And sometimes things happens which we don´t can see in advance.

But Finish kennel Club say Satu can not use a unofficial result, IT MUST BE OFFICIAL if she is going to use a HD result at all !!! and that she do not follow Fkk rules !!! which I was sure she did as she is a Fkk / FCI breeder !!!

You are a beginner in the world of csw. So as a beginner you have to inform yourself. Normally one goes to the breeder and looks at his kennel and of course the dogs. And than goes to another breeder for having some comparison. Or if you don´t do that you are satiesfyd with the first one. But you can not blame people if things happen which are for you so important but not for the breeder. I don´t know if it is allowed to breed in Finland with csw without official HD-results. It seems to me, but you will tell me how it is. I know that in italy you only need papers for csw and you can do what you want. No bonitation, no HD-results, no show results. The big and good breeders will have of course all. But there are so many black sheeps.

You can breed whiteout, but you can not use unofficial HD results on a pure-bred !!!

So if it not necessaey to have official HD-result, it is your own work to ask if Satu had offcial had result. You wrote by yourself that you did not ask that for! Satu knew from first HD lok which Suski did, that there will be no hd. And for her it was enough.

She can think what she wont’s, but she can not use it as advertising or info when she sell a litter, neither in text or by mouth !!! according to the Fkk !!!

So please it is a thing between you, maybe if some other puppy buyer has problems, for them, but it nothing for us all!

As I did say read post one, Satu can answer in private to Fkk, but it is apparently very hard to just say NO I DO NOT HAVE A OFFICIAL X-RAY !!!

You did read her here there are breeders who breed with male csw who does not have bonitation and are not allowed to breed. These points are main points but not what you are talking about. Still today there are no official hd-results from these two litters from Sleeping and what for are you complaning for in this moment?

That Satu did lay about the HD result to me and others, and we wont to know the official result on Sleeping Storm. Is or was she ever A/A ??? I think we have the right to know !!! even if all offspring’s will be A/A there mother will be HD unknown !!! Therefore I did send a report to Fkk, demanding a official x-ray !!!

And by the way you did not answer my eMail from a few weeks ago either!

Are you sure you did send it to me ??? I’m sure I did send my e-mails to Satu as she did answer on 5 of 8 of them…But to be very sure I did send tree e-mail !!!

But please send me that e-mail again, and I will answer you, my e-mail is wolfdog_of_sweden-a-hotmail.com but whit a @ instead of –a-

Best regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originariamente inviata da Mikael

But please send me that e-mail again, and I will answer you, my e-mail is wolfdog_of_sweden-a-hotmail.com but whit a @ instead of –a-

Best regards / Mikael

You got new email ???
On your home page is different(old) email, maybe that is why you don`t answer on my emails too ?

Greetings Rolf

[Mikael]

Originariamente inviata da rolf

You got new email ???
On your home page is different(old) email, maybe that is why you don`t answer on my emails too ?

Greetings Rolf

One is the private/kennel e-mail box the other is wolfdog.se e-mail box...

But thanks fore the info, there is something wrong whith whit my spam filter aperantly but I get e-mails there every day, so I know it works, so I think it must be (smaler) spam filter problem ???

PLEASE USE THIS E-MAIL wolfdog_of_sweden-a-hotmail.com but whit a @ instead of -a-

I´m very sorry I did not know I will ask my webmaster to take a look at it as sone as posible...

Sorry all, and thanks Rolf and Christian / Mikael

[jennyw1]

I do not understand and agree! Why i cant speak about what i want about Csw on a forum for Csw ? Its up to me!And if i stand for what im speaking about so i do not think someoneelse can not tell me what to say or not even if people always have all kind of comments.

Csw is not a big breed there is not many how knows about the breed and is it not at a forum official or not you can speak about your problems?Especially IF you not can find answer your questions were you should and have tried!
And i think its good that this kind of problems comes oute why hinde in the shadow if you realy care about something?Maby you can find someone how have thesame problem for example or other people do not have to do desame misstake that you did!Is there someting to hide?I do not think so because if you treat other with respekt you get respekt and if you dont you maby here some talk about it!