Norwegian ban on SW and CzW

[Rona]

Dear Admin,
Could you please punish XaedasKSP for spamming TWO wofdog forums with irrelevant, political posts?

Although I've got a remarkable record of struggling with communism in Poland long before this ignorant, cynical boy was born, I consider his obsessive 'political' writing noxious.

Who is for?

[Per Olav]

Originally Posted by Rona

Who is for?

Both hands above my head and my feet are struggling to follow
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[XaedasKSP]

As long as the politics are the ones preventing people in normally keeping CSV in Norway then its absolutely relevant to discuss it....

Especially when one member of the forum claims he is working on chaning the law in Norway and an another one claims that the CSV is created by communists and therefore a "communist dog" then I have to be allowed to answer both of them. Since what is being debated here is a strictly connected to the politics....

And I see you have been taught in this "struggle" that cenzorship is a very nice method of silencing people who say something against the governmental practice? Wonder how you struggled.....by watching what people do and reporting it to the closest "milicja-station" or ZOMO ?

Admin will hopefully understand that when people come with political based arguments to me then I have to answer them politically too. And isnt this part of the forum named Clubs & law ?? Law is based on politics....let us have freedom of speech!

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

Socialist way of make dogs blablabla

Originally Posted by Rona

Dear Admin,
Could you please punish XaedasKSP for spamming TWO wofdog forums with irrelevant, political posts?

Although I've got a remarkable record of struggling with communism in Poland long before this ignorant, cynical boy was born, I consider his obsessive 'political' writing noxious.

Who is for?

Of course, for Captain Picard sake... 7 days frozen as warn , if Admin dont kick him out first, next time of this behaviour I will ban him forever.

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Now 3 weeks because the clone, next and will be forever.

[Per Olav]

Thanks
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[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Of course, for Captain Picard sake... 7 days frozen as warn , if Admin dont kick him out first, next time of this behaviour I will ban him forever.

I vote yes to…. god I like democracy

By by Schoolboy

Thanks Nebb good work

Very best regards / Mikael

[XaedasKSP]

Ok since the forum is politically cenzored then I shall not post anything more about politics. (But I have to just commend that "Per Olav" himself on his homepage that he was referring to, have written that the person who wished to revote the law in order to get the CzWs banned in Norway was Kristin Halvorsen the leader of SV (Sosialistisk Venstreparti) and first then CzWs became banned. So to say that its not a case of right or left side of politics is strange after personally writing about who pushed on to get the law about banning CzW, but I shall not write more about politics this is the last thing I had to say just so you know that banning me was unfair)

Ah and as for you Mikael, well as much as I wish I could say in direct words what I think, I shall not do it since responding to your post would probably get me banned 10xtimes....

As for the case of the dog, then I have found a perfect solution, the Saarloos Wolfhond which is 100 % legal in Norway. This way I can have a "wolfie" and have it legally, in addition after I have read more about this race I found out that its even better for the place where I live than a CzW.

In addition I think that you could edit the title of the thread since it suggests that Saarloos is to banned in Norway while this is not the case and people who look on the forum might get confused and think that both of the races are banned. Instead it could be an idea to inform about SW and that its legal in Norway so people who live in Norway and want a CzW can read about the less known race of SWs and see if they maybe can be just as happy owning a SW like they would be with a CzW.

Since SWs are a much more rare race than CzW from what I have found out then, there should be some information about them here instead of the confusing title telling that both dogs are banned in Norway which is not true. People who are looking for a wolfdog do most often find the CzW as the first result and absolutely no info about SW and then they dont know that it is possible to have a wolfdog legally in Norway and that this possibility is the SW (all wolfhybrids and other wolfmixes are actually too illegal like the CzW so SW is the only option in Norway).

[Per Olav]

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

Ok since the forum is politically cenzored then I shall not post anything more about politics. (But I have to just commend that "Per Olav" himself on his homepage that he was referring to, have written that the person who wished to revote the law in order to get the CzWs banned in Norway was Kristin Halvorsen the leader of SV (Sosialistisk Venstreparti) and first then CzWs became banned.

I don't want to debate your misunderstanding any more. If you cut and focus on one single statement from a seven page contex anything can be "proven". Even if most debated, the Norwegian ban of named breeds was a minor issue of the law as a whole. And as I've earlier written - the reason of banning the csv was not a political one but the law itself was a political issue as its existence is a matter of debate and the voting of the Members of our Parliament and NOT depending on the confused opinnon of the chairman of a single political party.

In addition I think that you could edit the title of the thread since it suggests that Saarloos is to banned in Norway while this is not the case and people who look on the forum might get confused and think that both of the races are banned.

Since SWs are a much more rare race than CzW from what I have found out then, there should be some information about them here instead of the confusing title telling that both dogs are banned in Norway which is not true. .

This thread started back in 2002 when a ban on both breeds was discussed. By following the thread you'll see how the matter developed and how the csv became the single target by groups of special interrest. The SW was just on the edge of beeing banned and still might be.

No one have ever expressed the SW as a banned breed of Norway. On the contrary the legal keeping of sw has been mentioned in this thread as well as in others.

The main purpose of this site is discussing the csv - not SW nor Norwegian laws. Myself I'm quite horrified by your writing. Do you really want to keep a rare breed like a sw just because of its wolfie look and its "rareness" and for no other purpose but that?

I suppose you are informed that our law is stating that if any negative incident (no matter where) made by sw is observed by our authorities the legal keeping of it may be reconsidered. Sad to say - based on your ignorant, respectless and immature behaviour you're in my opinnion not the right person to keep neither a csv nor a sw and I do hope no one ever will sell you one 'cause this might be hazzardous for the future of the handfull sw individals remaining in this country and the work of many good people fighting for a remake of the law made by responsible persons with knowledge of dogs.
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[XaedasKSP]

Yes I know that the thread was started in 2002 and that if someone read the whole thread carefully then he/she can find out that SWs are not banned in Norway.

But I just thought about the "random user" who will find this page and this forum looking for a wolfdog. And then if that user even ever heard of a SW (which is much less known as the CzW) when seeing this title might think that both races are banned....if he/she dont study the whole thread carefully. As for the purpose of the site well its still called "wolfdog.org" and there are forum parts about "other wolfdogs" and this forum part is about the law so its being discussed here.....

As for the law, well it looks like the government have iced the whole case, and since its totally not logic to ban dogs that havent been involved in any accidents while dogs like rotweilers can create "accident" after "accident" and no one cares....another proof of this is that even norwegian breeders are starting to breed SWs again and there will probably be SW litter in Norway in february 2010 (ofc. they like extra special price in Norway (even as for norway), nearly 3000 euro, which I would actually pay but lucky for me I found a breeder in germany who have already got a litter that is just waiting to become 8 weeks and a normal price of 1000 euros) so it looks like the plans of a ban are long forgotten in the shadow of history.

And as for me I dont want to keep a rare breed cause its rare, I would just as much wish to have a wolfdog if everyone in the world owned one. When I refer to it as "wolfie" then its because I really like wolfes and the wolflook of SWs and CzWs makes them really beautiful in my eyes. And if you read the history of the SW then you find out that one of the purposes of the breeders of the race was "the wolfie look" so the highly competent breeders have made the dog become more "wolfie" than the original inventor of the race did. And the dog is classified as "company dog" race, unlike the CzW that is listed as "working dog" race.

As for the liknesses in character of the SW and CzW they are extremly many if you read the official character description of the dogs. The main difference is that SW is more shy and it cant work in the police for example. And SW is actually an even more suitable race for someone who live in an area with not too many people in the closest neighbourhood and close to forests. I have carefully read the official descriptions of the characters of the both races and if you do that too then you will find out that very many people who just know about the more popular CzW could have an SW which actually could suit their situation even better, since there are few people who buy a CzW because they want to train it like a police dog. Shyness of a dog is probably totally ok for a dog that is meant to be a family dog. In any case those dogs are not extremly different, both in presence and character.

"based on your ignorant, respectless and immature behaviour" ahh well if you think this cause of my political expressions well.......I am not surprised most of the left side do say this about their opponents as persons too and not only about the politics itself, but I shall not discuss it longer since politics are not allowed here as I see, but I had to just respond to this "personal attack" made in the style of "your opponent" Ben Werner that you write so much about on your homepage.

As for my keeping of SW well I will watch the dog carefully enough to dont let any accident happen, and from what I know about dogs accidents got much bigger chance of happening with a Rotweiler or even a German sheperd than with a SW which is all the time described as a shy dog.

And as for the SW I have already got a deal about getting a pup I am just waiting for it to become 8 weeks, and its not bought in Norway, but there shall also be Saarloos pups in Norway in February 2010 maybe even 2 litters are planned for 2010 from what I have heard (since there are already 11 people on the waitlist for a pup in Norway even before the pups are born) so there will be definitly more Saarlooses in Norway than just a "handfull". And I think this can just HELP the case of CsV getting allowed since if the government will care too look. Since they will se that SWs function perfectly well in Norway even when there are more dogs than "a handfull". So then they will probably think that it can go well too with CSV if it becomes legal.

[Per Olav]

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

"based on your ignorant, respectless and immature behaviour" ahh well if you think this cause of my political expressions well.......I am not surprised most of the left side do say this about their opponents as persons too and not only about the politics itself, but I shall not discuss it longer since politics are not allowed here as I see, but I had to just respond to this "personal attack" made in the style of "your opponent" Ben Werner that you write so much about on your homepage.

It's no personal attack, look at your prev postings and what others have responded to your writings. And I must say if every right winged do express themselves like you do I'll consider changing my political platform.

As for Mr Werner who years ago participated in some discussions on this forum no attack is published on my home page, but like other "advisors" to our Ministry of Justice a summary of some of his writing is refered and well documented on my home page as well as on others. You also find a resumé of this made by the Kennel Klub etc.

And hereby I perfer to end my discussion with you on this subject and no more Pm's please
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[Mikael]

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

Ah and as for you Mikael, well as much as I wish I could say in direct words what I think, I shall not do it since responding to your post would probably get me banned 10xtimes....

BTW, I did send e-mails to ALL Saarloos kennels today, warning them and linking to this topic good luck

Yes I do see what others have responded but you can also see in those responses like for example Mikaels ones that they got political views on the "left side".....

Sorry but you are wrong as always I vote 100% Moderaterna, that is the right side...

Love you to Best regards / Mikael

[XaedasKSP]

Yes I know that there are many people in Norway who might not like the breed although I have in person met no one who hate wolves only on debate forums and on internet never face to face.

But the existence of those people cant make us not have Saarlooses, and the best example of not caring about those few people shouting high is the breeder who breed saarlooses and until now from what I have heard from the breeder she havent had any problems with anyone who dont like the dogs....

What I think you mean is that inexperienced owners can lead to "accidents" and that can be prevented by training, being carefull and using time on the dog. And even if the governement for some strange reason would ban SWs then my dog will be perfectly safe since they cant kill the dogs that are already legally in Norway. Just as they allowed you too keep the CSV.

And other peoples prejustice if there exist wont have any influence on my dog.....since both me and the dog is protected by law actually.

And as for Mikael: well since I cant answer you in the manner I wish to on this forum I shall skip it and rather talk about in a more political forum. And as for your earlier comment you said " Do not be to sure about that, way do you think they just lost It looks like all people in Norway do not think like you, thank god." so if you are happy that FrP and the "right side" lost then you can definitly not be on the "right side" yourself. (The political talk I do here is just answering others talking politically to me, so I cant be banned for that unless they too get banned).


And I congratulate you on doing the hard work of finding all the Saarloos kennels in Europe it really takes some time since they are not easy to find.
Sadly for you it all is in vain since I have already reserved my dog and everything is already booked I have even called the "mattilsynet" about getting import allowance. So sadly for you the breeder isnt a socialist ***** ** **** (sadly I cant express what I wish since politics are forbidden here) and understand that the dog will have a very nice life at my place with all it can ever need. And it is 100 % legal so no matter how unhappy you are that I have realised my dream there is nothing you can do about it.....

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

And I congratulate you on doing the hard work of finding all the Saarloos kennels in Europe it really takes some time since they are not easy to find.

For me it was easy as I had the list of all saarloos breeders in Europe
But if I´m missing someone I did it a FW e-mail

Maybe your breeder will not send you one now I hope so...

Kisses and hugs / Mikael

[Per Olav]

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

And other peoples prejustice if there exist wont have any influence on my dog.....since both me and the dog is protected by law actually.

OMG. You still don't understand. Keeping away from accidents did not prevent the csv from beeing banned in Norway, merely the fact that it was a csv - a dog breed started as a sientfic experiment by breeding wolves and dogs by the mid 1950ies made it a victim. What prevented the sw from beeing banned is the fact that its breeding started some twenty years earlier and thus a little less dangerous according to our authoryties. But still the sw is ballancing on the edge.

If you love your breed you must think in long terms, not egosentric like whatever might happend in the near future - my dog is safe and protected by law. That's one more of what horrifies me by your way of thinking.
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