Lupus Ibericus Kennel (Spain)

[alberto_cepedano]

Hello everyone!

My name is Alberto, from Spain. I'm Zoray's Lupus Ibericus Owner and I want to explain my experience with my puppy.

Zoray was sent to me from Murcia on the 28th of November. She arrived in perfect conditions and until now she's perfectly healthy, very active and sociable and she's behaving like a normal puppy (She weights 11.600 kg)

She usually travels with us by car and she never gets sick. She's not afraid of people or other animals.

I'm sorry about the situation with other owners, but my experience with Mr. Carlos has been very good. He's been worried for Zoray and her new home, asking about her and her adaptation to us.

This is my experience and I wanted to share it with you. You can also have a look at some Zoray's pictures in the data base.

Happy new year to everyone

[Jose Mª]

I feel that his dog this patient, but it seems that the dog does not want to pay for the expenses that it has had of the veterinarian.
I visited the breeder 1 days before the birth of Zacarias and I can say that the facilities were good, and the health of his dogs was perfect.
I hope that Spain they should turn out to be more kennel that they bet for this race as Lupus Iberico.

[Erwan Grey]

That strange that all the written opinions belong to persons registered new in the forum...

Being that is a forum little known ... I think the one who is behind these declarations and the one who is asking to write.

Happy New Year 2010

[Nebulosa]

This topic turns more in throw shit in each other than about the problem itself.
Erwan talked about the best method of breed, but nobody here comes to english forum talk about the many litters of CzW in Spain made without even think about the health of the dogs, no HD and ED results, linebreeding in dogs which we all know have huge hips problems, people repeating litters because its have less costs, people mostly matting dogs because they live close or even people turning breeder because they have male and female CzW, doing it without minimal knowledge nor even about the breed standard nor even caring about the puppies health.

Carlos was the first breeder which traveled far for mate with the dog he likes, with the dog he found correct to his female, he was one of the few breeders wich mate knowing the ED and HD results of both dogs, one of the few breeders that at least did it and published it without fear to send his datas to the database, that only accept official results.

Well, he had a very nice litter, and I hope next years he will have more litters, with different males for bring new blood to spain, with dogs that at least follow the standard of tipicity looking like a CzW should be.

Erwan comes here to show his problem, but also to blame the breeder, I can say it because have two spanish forum wich problems and arging between breeder, owner and other spanish people could happen without any problem, which the problem could be also solved and published in more easy way, with better understanding between each other.
When have in Spain some unscrupulous breeders fearing the correct breeding and that the information about this arrive to people who search for pups, a public blame against breeder whichs trying do the best would be everything they ever waiting for, so they could use it for mistaken future owners and earn his money at the cost of the breed quality and of the pups health.

Here I saw exaggerations for both parts:
Which's the problem of use eletric fence? some people do it and its a very nice idea, principally when the dog could put in risk the life of other dogs and even his own life walking freely. Would be simply irresponsible let the dog free without any control, and of course, if you touch the eletric fence you will fell a pretty strong and painfull eletric shock, that's why the eletric fence exist, animals are not stupid, they will touch it one or two times, sometimes even more, and after it, no more, you can even let it turn off that they will not get close.
The garbage looks like plastic, some dogs love to play with plastic things, principaly with pet bottle, if you adapt it and put something inside, the dog can pass hours playing with it, even wolfdogs, of course it will look like garbage in the floor, also some wolfdogs LOVE steal things and play with, are you sure its garbage and not something the wolfdogs steal and after it "lost his magic" they simply forget in the floor?
Transport the puppies in plastic box, wood box, papper box, you put something more soft to protect the puppies of the hard part... its so common in some breedings over the world, its a good idea to transport some puppies withoutit would be two by two, depending of the climate condition or of the place, also is a nice idea to transport the puppies in a safe way, of course i'm not talking here about travel with the puppies, but about move then to one side to other of the house, or even momentanely let then there when you clean the place where they stay.
About mud in the water place, well, I have some pig dogs which LOVE DIG, they dig and after runs to his water place for DIVE, of course the mud that was in his coat go to the water gallon, I need to change it several times by day, luckly its not only one, but about 4 gallons spreaded at the "destruction garden" , in the foto of the water place you can see also in the deep a wolfdog digging... its almost auto-explainable question.

After all that I think that if you visit more breeders of CzW over europe you will get crazy because mostly places would be in "worst conditions", some dogs are kept in small kennels when the owner need get out for work, even with such "not nice places" to see, the dogs are healty, well threated and very well socialized, the place even if not nice is normally clean ( and here I mean, without shith, bad smell, parasicts and other things that we can call real problems, not plastic or something the dogs stole, I can assure you that they would NOT be better if stay in a ultra-mega-super auto-clean higienic jail with some people working only for this with a huge ammount of dogs like some kennels of Labradors or Goldens wich looks "nice" to our eyes, but are a real suffer for the dogs.

About STEAL THE DOG, if there was a contract, and you know he took the dog, he didn't steal it, maybe someone is braking the contract, but it does not mean "steal" the animal.
I look to the blog of Erwan since he start it, much before this problem appear, there is written at November 16 that whole litter had bloody diarrhea, that the breeder took the litter to the vet wich tooks care of the puppies and said when they're ok and could get back home, right?
So, seems that then Carlos sended they to their new homes, for what I could read there Zacarias soon keep with the problem and need to go to the vet again, now I know that the dog which had go to france died (I believe that soon his owner will write here and let clear what happened), who is wrong here?
Seems that we really cant blame carlos for it, as for what I know the vet has liberate the dogs and only after it Carlos sended them to their new homes, if its right, so maybe the vet were wrong?
If the dog arrives with the problem at the home of Erwan, he will have how to proof it and then normally the breeder should pay the dog threatment because it was not owner's fail, but suposed fail of the breeder, but looks like in this case nor the owner nor the breeder was wrong, but the vet which liberate the litter as healty.
The problems seems to be bigger than only "irresponsible breeder" or 'irreponsible owner" and looks like you're fighting for something that could be solved in peace, without doubts the court will solve it without mistakes.

[Erwan Grey]

Certainly in your words there are very well written things.

The only thing THE ONLY THING that I am doing is TO DEFEND my HONOR and my DOG.

The ONLY THING that I am doing, is to demonstrate Mr. Carlos that cannot be call me A THIEF and not to be able to accuse me of STEALING your dogs. Because I have Paid and Signed a contract. And if speaks this words, it is possible to answer since as like me I have answered. Something that I never did before.

I have not initiated this war. He appeared, suddenly being calling A THIEF and I am not going to allow that it should continue doing it.

The ONLY THING that I want is that she leaves me alone and after-taste in peace the recovery of my dog and my life with him and my family.

For me, only Blizzard (Zacarias) is important and your Stealh.

Everyone that breed your animals like it wants, but that neither does bad arts does not even want to gain more money of the one that has won.

I am going to stop writing here because I do not want to damage any more anybody. The only thing that I want is JUSTICE and PEACE

The laws are to use them, and if it is necessary that they take charge of this situation. I possess the proofs and the information necessary to defend myself and the puppy without problems. Only he wanted to show, since this man acts when is not interested in anything or wants it badly

[carlos2207]

NO no no. The problem of this post is other. Julito not payment and when I reclam this payment Julito threatened to use every means to destroy my kennel If I reclam the payment or the dog. As you can see in the false argumentation of this professional circus humor.

When I speak with my lawyer, and if he let me, I put in my web page all mails en which Julito threatens to do what he has done. Sistematically use of lie for destroy in this foro and in other foros. He threatened me with destroy my kennel in the world of wolfdog, breders.... and any one would to speak with me.

I not speak the conditions of live of my dogs in my kennel. I wait the owner of Zeus write about this. But I speak about the ill of Zacarias. Julito work in the photo and use the set design for to do truely at his lies. You can see one building of set design uses a stethoscope. My veterinary say me that this photos are false. One puppy is imposible that have the canula only secured with two strips of esparatrapo. One puppy of wolfdog inmediately remove the canula. You know how are the pupies. When one puppy is in the hospital we need to used one very strong and big band for secure the canula and tubs. And in some hours all puppies removed the canula and cut de tubs. One puppy not can live in one hospital or live or is dead.in days. One adult dog can live more time.

What is the illness of Zacarias??

Anyone know It.

I finish ask to the moderadors of this foro. One person that do it he can continue use this foro????

[Nebulosa]

Commonly co-ownership dogs are sold for cost price, half price or even are donated, the owner of the dog would make the HD and ED exams, will pass some dogshows or even working trials depending of the breed, and the breeder that is his co-owner will use frelly the stud in his females.

Originally Posted by Carlos

Julito not payment and when I reclam this payment Julito threatened to use every means to destroy my kennel

I listened that he paid half as its in the contract of co-ownership, so if was that I dont understand where is the problem? Why did you wanted him to pay the other part?

Originally Posted by Carlos

My veterinary say me that this photos are false.

Sorry, your vet cannot say that, to tell you the truth if he did it he broke some etic rules wich I really believe that exist also in Spain.

Originally Posted by Carlos

One puppy is imposible that have the canula only secured with two strips of esparatrapo.

Its possible even with one depending of the dog conditions and also of who is with the dog, and i'm talking also about pups of the most energetic breeds.
In vet hospital you can meet puppies wich pass months in treatment and survive, also you can meet puppies wich are not strong enough to move their heads for drink water, if the pup dont eat properly and have diarrhea, his faint will be really quickly.

But about the photos, Erwan would really e rich is he be able to make such perfect fake photos, with such shadows, reflect and perfect usage marks of the equipments without let marks of the cuts in the photos even when we search for it in photoshop.
I also dont think a vet would let someone use the clinic only for make fell photos for "blame" a breeder, again we will enter in etic talk.

Originally Posted by Carlos

One person that do it he can continue use this foro????

You're saing that he did it, that he make fake photos, that he is only here for blame your kennel because he didn't want to pay the dog.

He is saying that you want take back a ill dog, that he payed what is in the contract ( half price?) and you want him to pay full (??)
At least was that I could understand of it all.

Its your words agains his words... I really cannot judge as I dont know the truth.

For me, its look like more a small mistake which turns huge, like a snow ball.

[Silvester]

Ok - now i have some more time for writing .

I agree completely with what Alberto Cepedano did write above before. Senor Carlos Antonio i have got to know as a very hospitably, friendly and cultivated man with a lot of interest and knowledge about wolfdogs.

We had long correspondence via internet some months before , from end of August 2009 until my visit to him.

He waited for me and took me from the airport Alicante early in the morning , drove me in his private car more than 100 km to his place and he had already reserved a good and not expensive hotel in his home- town.
Beside this he two times invited me for restaurant and one time to his private home . His mother made delicious supper for me and at last after three days he also did drive me back again the same long direction to the airport of Alicante . He did not ask me me for paying all this service.

And all this he did without i had asked for it !

But the best came at last: He said that he does NOT want any money from me at all when i wanted to pay the price for my fine new dog - just he said that i can do it via bank- transfer when i will be back at my home place again ! I really was feeling ashamed by his confidence and his care -taking during my whole time at his place.

If I would be like Julio Tudelo alias "Erwan Grey" i may be would have not payed any money to him, he gave me the opportunity to do this without any problem ! But I´m not Julio and so of course i payed him at once when i was back home.

So far to the obviously really good and honourable character of Senor Carlos Antonio.
I can tell only the absolutely best about him. He treated me like a true friend.

Ok, now i want to speak about my dog " Zeus". I was with him to my veterianary here in Germany only 5 days after i have got him from Senor Antonio because of another vaccination was needed and the vet. made an all round- check of health of "Zeus". He also made a test on parvovirosis, wheather he has or even has had this desease before. The test was negative.
He told me that he is completely healthy and in good condition. He especially said that the vaccinations Senor Antonio had let made by his veterinarian before were correct and made with good and expensive medical material.

Up to now everything is running very good with my new little friend "Zeus" is fit and playing and growing and all is ok with him.

I want to say also that he is very good socialized, he is not shy and has no fear and is friendly to all people.

Now i speak about what i saw in Carlos` kennel:

1. The kennel is quite big , may be about 20 x 40 m , surrounded by a normal metal fence . It is situated inside a very widespread area of citrus and mandarine- plantation which is itsself surrounded by another, second fence.

The electrical wires are only in the inner, smaller fence. To the time of my visite, the electric currency all time was switched OFF ! And i have seen by the behaviour of the two adult dogs and especially the puppies too, that it must be off for long time before, because none of the dogs had any fear of the fence or kept distance.
All dogs had normal behaviour, not shy , also not aggressive and they were in good condition. Carlos all time when we were coming to the place of kennel , he opended the door of inner fence to let all dogs out and they were playing with us and each other after they had made greeting to me and Carlos.

So everything was very normal and ok. There was also no dirt around .

2. It´s simply not true that the dogs don´t get enough water or the water is not changed. If someone is telling this, it´s for my opinion very likely that he´s telling more lies in other cases.

At last i want to make public here, that "Erwan Grey" alias Julio Tudelo is a professional photographer and everyone knows - or should know - that today even for an amateur it is very simple to make manipulation or falsification on any photo, especially on the computer. So photos does not proof anything !

If Carlos Antonio tells that there are false photos made public here, i have no doubt that he is telling the truth.

For me it seems that this thread has got the wrong name. It should not be named " Big problems with kennel Lupus Ibericus " but better : "Big problems with people who are not decently, telling lies and have no behaviour."

I wish everyone a nice weekend. May be i wíll write more to this thema in the next days, if i think it´s needed.

Bye- bye from Germany

[Erwan Grey]

Thank you very much (NEBULOSA) for your words.

finally!, someone speaks with coherence in this case.

I am not going to continue speaking as already I said in the previous post. Since it is possible to verify, this breeder speaks that I lie, and that also lie the veterinarians, who lie the photographies, lie the works of my veterinarians ... only what touches is the good thing...

I do not try to destroy anybody, only I tell publicly the VIOLATION of this gentleman after I DO NOT KNOW BECAUSE MOTIVE says that I have stolen him.

That is what this gentleman wants? I have expired AT ALL TIME WITH EVERYTHING.

That happens to him?

They have just sent a private message from the nick "KAIKU" saying that I paid 100 Euros to Carlos. Now have I paid 100 Euros to him?

did not say who had stolen? now and it's not that I've paid 100 euros?

money, money, money ... only think of money ... But if I have not asked to pay any costs of dog veterinary PAY ME WHAT I AM ALL.

really wants this person? DO NOT UNDERSTAND!

He knew that people are talking about here are why he's asked and this is how people use and what he wants now is to not let me speak here not out of this.

It would be easier if you let calm the dog and me. I do not want problems, just want my dog is well and stop lying and speak ill of me. Only this.

thanks and sorry for all this mess, but I really am distressed by the persecution of this man to me and Blizzard (Zacarias)

[Rona]

I'm neither a vet, nor a photoshop expert, but the scars on the puppy remind me of similar ones which out late Tina had when she was a puppy, i.e. in 1993. They looked very badly, but turned out to be just symptoms of allergy. It took us quite a while to recognize the allergen, but when we changed her food, after a couple of weeks or months (I don't remember now) the scars disappeared.

It's quite common that pups' adaptation to new home germs/food/fabrics/ cleaning chemicals etc. takes some time and they have various symptoms - like diarhhea, scars, scratching, etc. Still, one can hardly blame the breeder for this...

Erwan have you tried changing the home cleaning detergents to very mild ones (e.g. liquid for intimate hygene), washing the pup's blankets in washing powder for babies, eliminating chicken and diary products from her diet, giving the pup calcium, etc.?

Sometimes common sense and simple solutions work best. Good luck!

And one more thing: happy, healthy puppy is exetremely messy and this is just a symptom of natural learning process!

[Erwan Grey]

Originally Posted by carlos2207

NO no no. The problem of this post is other. Julito not payment and when I reclam this payment Julito threatened to use every means to destroy my kennel If I reclam the payment or the dog. As you can see in the false argumentation of this professional circus humor.

one last thing:

If for you, the life of Zacarias is a matter of "professional circus humor." For me it is not, and with that and with their arguments and denials of the evidence that I sent you and says much of the evidence is that all this aporetic . The only thing they do is talk and talk and discredit me and veterinarians worldwide.

Nobody asks for in his public website no pictures of the instalations?

http://www.lupusibericus.com/index-es.htm

(as a public web page I put it here also to be understood that what I say)

No one questions because their dogs NEVER compete in beauty? (only few Times in Puppy class)

No one asks because he has no family or people or another places photos with their dogs? (the few ones are those that I did as I asked him please do so because it was very sad to have to dogs isolated in the world)

When he thinks something is because of what I speak, and to be a breeder should not have two dogs, but many more things as ethics, morality, love of dogs and especially knowledge and experience.

You can not buy 2 dogs and the fact that you like bragging autocalled BREEDER. It takes many years of experience and expertise on all race and breeding.

That's my opinion, though each do what he wants as long as you do it with RESPONSIBILITY.

[Erwan Grey]

Originally Posted by carlos2207

My veterinary say me that this photos are false. One puppy is imposible that have the canula only secured with two strips of esparatrapo. One puppy of wolfdog inmediately remove the canula. You know how are the pupies. When one puppy is in the hospital we need to used one very strong and big band for secure the canula and tubs. And in some hours all puppies removed the canula and cut de tubs. One puppy not can live in one hospital or live or is dead.in days. One adult dog can live more time.

I have just had a telephone conversation with D. Angel Roa Aljama, this person is the veterinarian Carlos Martinez puppies and which, as Carlos said that the photos were fake as you can read above.

Well, this gentleman DENIES having said this, and Carlos can not understand how to have said that publicly.

Who is lying here? me or Carlos?

Who is trying to distort information and mainly involve third parties who are not guilty of anything?

[jasmine]

Erwan,

We couldn't see where is the truth.And as we are not there , everybody could write what they want.
I'm sorry to say but would be more intelligent to arange your "business" inbetween each other and not in an open forum.

Problems could happened in every kennel.....the biggest problem that you are unable to handle this thing.

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