Ugly feminine males...

[fenris]

It is interesting to see this dog in relation to his forefathers (father: Cezar od Pavlina, grandfather: Rep z Pohranieni) and his offspring (son: Cino z Rosikova). It would be very interesting to see from the participants in this discussion some comments on his son Cino z Rosikova and his father Cezar - and the relationship in types. Fenris

[massimo]

It seems we are going out of topic in some posts.
Bux,the dog, I have NEVER seen in real life.
Monika's links on dog shows are interesting to determine that he was NOT a great show dog, this is a fact.
Maybe problem was character?
Another fact is that he had an amazingly beautiful head. One of the best heads i've ever seen.
This DOESN'T mean he is the best stud one can use.
The best head i've ever seen is surely Galiba Crying wolf.
AGAIN, this doesn't mean he is the best stud one can use.
In fact, there are OTHER factors which make a CSW a great CSW...not just the HEAD.
I will never forget showing a friend (I hope I can still call her that way) some great fotos of a CSW...and she was honestly impressed.
When she saw the dog in real life....her impression was TOTALLY different.

The "health" topic is for me of fundamental importance.
Here I must agree with Monika.
I prefer breeding healthy dogs within standard but not SUPER wolf looking with a life expectation of many years than a CSW who is very very wolfish but with weak health structure.
I have NO DOUBT about that.
We should not forget we are playing with the lives of creatures who learn to love and be loved by us...we cannot risk their lives, we are no longer in the "military-hartl" regime when the breed was born and non appropriate dogs could be buried in huge quantities.
I HATE breeders who "risk" on health of CSWs...using extreem inbreeding or dogs who have produced several displasic puppies or a very displasic dog himself.
I know breeding is a "risk" but some risks are calculated and others not...you can "expect" some consequences of your own risks.
I have a prayer, my greatest prayer is that my dogs live a long healthy life, and die as late as possible, as I pray that my displasic dog will never suffer.

Returning to the topic, from what I see in photos Bux is an extraordinary looking CSW.
Maybe his constitution is not VERY strong or firm, but I am sure that ALL, even Monika would agree with me that it would have been worth using him more than just once with the right female to see if it was possible to get out from this dog the same head and improve the body structure.
After all, that is the main goal of a breeder...to "produce" an improved CSW from already excellent ones...

[Hanka]

In fact, there are OTHER factors which make a CSW a great CSW...not just the HEAD.

Massimo, write it by red colour and very big font. Maybe this:
In fact, there are OTHER factors which make a CSW a great CSW...not just the HEAD.

And now, tell me, how much breeders do it. I think, not much. Everybody look at WD gallery, he see wolfish head and travel to male only for it. Not matter male is shy or he has tragical movement.....On foto is super wolfish type, so pups will look like wolf too. Shy wolfdogs? Hmmm, no problem, it is wolfdog, shynnes is normal.

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Shy wolfdogs? Hmmm, no problem, it is wolfdog, shynnes is normal.

Hanka, what you say is right but shyness is NOT only a genetic factor, it ALSO depends on how the dog was brought up.
I have read your opinions on character on other threads and cannot say I agree 100% with you (photo of dog with tail under belly=shy dog...not true!)
But yes, character, structure, bloodline make a CSW...not just head, in this 100% agreement.

[Hanka]

No problem Massimo. All people are different and nobody can agree in 100%

[Mikael]

To me the head is important but mostly what’s inside of it

Judging on the look only, the most important thing will for me be the body structure and not a wolfish head or wolfish light colours...

Best regards / Mikael

[martiou07]

about great show dog or not

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...cesses&id=7853

while being more explicit, I saw this dog, and I always wonder how judges can give the excellent ones and titles to this type of dog, I am not expert, but there I really do not include/understand ......

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by martiou07

about great show dog or not

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...cesses&id=7853

while being more explicit, I saw this dog, and I always wonder how judges can give the excellent ones and titles to this type of dog, I am not expert, but there I really do not include/understand ......

Ask Monika

The link but in English >>> http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...cesses&id=7853

/ Mikael

[woland77]

Originally Posted by Hanka

I think, not much. Everybody look at WD gallery, he see wolfish head and travel to male only for it. Not matter male is shy or he has tragical movement.....On foto is super wolfish type, so pups will look like wolf too. Shy wolfdogs? Hmmm, no problem, it is wolfdog, shynnes is normal.

Hanka, you could not better describe the thought of CZW breeding in Italy...and more, on italian forum you can read: "Czw without typical wolfish mistrust, is not a good CZW...the most important is wolfish look, light eyes, short ears, large head...all others request of standard is not important.."

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by woland77

"Czw without typical wolfish mistrust, is not a good CZW...the most important is wolfish look, light eyes, short ears, large head...all others request of standard is not important.."

off course not all breeders but still...

But off course the fastest way to get there Is to add a wolf

Best regards / Mikael

[woland77]

For me (from photos and tales, off course) this dog had perfect masculine expression, perfect bones...excelent COI, and better blood because had a hybrid line more than Bux, and thuse a more genetic variability...



however i'm proud to have both, Bux and Tambury, on the pedegree of my female!

[woland77]

And it is visible also by CzW: in heavy lines there are MUCH MORE serious problem with, HD

..i can't agree..on a heavy dog, HD affect more than a light dog, (environmental factors) but from genetical heritage point view (the first, and only reason of HD presence), and genetical trasmission is wrong (for science knowledge of today), or better, is very very hard to demonstrate for the complexity of the interpenetration between genetic and environmental factors.

..if is realy than heavy type can give many healty problem, is realy also than reducing size with hig's inbreeding, even with strict selection on disease, classic depression from imbreeding are alwais present with COI more than 15% for 2-3 generation. We can see it on all toy breed and more others breed than coming from a so big type. Are all very dificult breed to breeding with great healt problem..yes, CZW is so far from this but Trumler study on domestication say: "on hybrid type these process are much faster than in a domestic dog breed"

[martiou07]

Originally Posted by massimo

Monika's links on dog shows are interesting to determine that he was NOT a great show dog, this is a fact.

hello Massimo,

the criteria of beauty in exposure change so much with time and a judge with other that he is, I think, very difficult to advance things similar ......

That would have can be been different if he had been judged by other judges ....... after what I read, and remarks that heard at the time of the visit a judge in France relating to Kondor, I wonder whether his affix was not also a problem .....