Ugly feminine males...

[Denial]

Originally Posted by massimo

...again the discussion switches to Mutara and Mutara gate......
Bux, heavy-light dogs arguments immediately become of no interest...
But it seems for Paula all this is coherent to thread...
So only choice now is to sit back and wait till the conclusion arrives (and always is the same conclusion....)

wll the discussion in quite senseless anyway as averybody will keep breeding the kind they like, and what is ugly for someone can be beautiful to someone else.
The thing is that this race is called WOLFdog, and as written in the standard it should look as much as possible to a WOLF.
Then if someone likes heavy type head and bodies because they are better for working and more ealthy (are them?) it is ok, breed that kind, as they are in standard anyway more or less.
Same thing for more wolfish type.

But as i Want a WOLFdog i'll rether go for the second one as nothing tells that wolfish kind is weaker sicker or is gonna die sooner then the gsg kind.

Looking to the pictures in the gallery of dogs and wolves what i can say (just my opinion) is that the heavier the scructure is the more the it will look like a GSD one rather then a wolf one (chest and front legs overall), and unfortunately haven't seen many wolfkind heavy structure ones (are there any?).

[Hanka]

Think teoreticly about it:
Just for example: we have 8 groups of males. In 6 groups is about 20 males and we can be happy about it.These groups will survive to future. They are nice, health, "dry" types, wolfish heads, beautiful movement.... But in two groups of males is only a few males, not nice, a little heavy, maybe some HD problems. Can we let them dead without pups????
What do you mean?
We need large genopool, so we MUST use every male which we have..It can be, 5-10 years later we will need them urgently.
Is here somebody who think about genopool?
I think, reason is to use ALL males what we can use and try to "work" on better exterier of this group.
True is- Czech republic "keep" genopool for all World. It is, why we have in breeding ugly males too, not only "stars of shows"....
Yes, I see, nobody want use them, especially from other countries. Everybody travel only to winners...

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Can we let them dead without pups????

Of course not, but it also does not mean use these males with all females possibles, what we can see are people using heavy males with nice tendency for HD with heavy females in the same conditions, it will not improve the breed, its not selection as the problem will persist and people will also have some problems to find correct females for his offsprings.

but let me remind a small problem here, mostly of the dogs today are not wolfish, I mean, what we can often see are heavy dogs with hanging lips huge chest and horrible movement, as the selection is not made and some people only cares for the lowest COI possible, we will continue to have more degenerated dogs as the time pass.

Low COI, genetic variability is very important, but we may never forget about selection as well, its need work both things togeter.

And please, i'm not talking here about someone specific or trying to "attack" someones breeding way, but I really worrie about what I listened a lot in 2009, some breeders doing litters wich they tough are nice only because both dogs are A and the COI % were small.

[Mikael]

Hmmmmm... It looks like the easiest questions is the hardest to answer post # 82 and # 83...

And I wonder way...

Regards / Mikael

[Sir Allen]

I am a beginner and I am learning thru the help of a very good CZ friend. Breeders should not allow the CZ Wolfdog to suffer the FATE of those breeds with working capabilities and protective instinct that are now all GONE due to PREFERENCES. Our beloved CZ wolfdogs are a true working breed very close to the wilds. Lets stay close to nature. Just my humble opinion.

[Erwan Grey]

Really very interesant post !!!

[lupis]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

but let me remind a small problem here, mostly of the dogs today are not wolfish, I mean, what we can often see are heavy dogs with hanging lips huge chest and horrible movement, as the selection is not made and some people only cares for the lowest COI possible, we will continue to have more degenerated dogs as the time pass.

I read all topic and i think it will be with our breed like with others and there will be many different types of CLC. And in many breeds such exist and also here other people can breed with their preferences. If Hanka, Monika and czech club want breed heavy dogs they can make "czech line" of CLC and if solowolf like with lot of coat like american he can do "english line". And nobody must love czech line or english line.
Everybody can make his line with specific look and we - people who will buy a new CLC can choose. Till this topic I was interested in CLC but now i was informed that i like "jackals" because I like a lot Bux photos - for me he is best wolfdog i see on photos.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by Hanka

True is- Czech republic "keep" genopool for all World. It is, why we have in breeding ugly males too, not only "stars of shows"....

But good genopool is not only different lines but good quality too. Maybe your club have many lines but i see only very few dogs which lokk very good and like wolfs. Breed start in your country but now i see maybe 2 or maybe 3 dogs with nice look in czech republic and it is much less that in other clubs. For me you say nice text but reality is not good.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Denial

The thing is that this race is called WOLFdog, and as written in the standard it should look as much as possible to a WOLF.

I can not find this info in the standard, can you quote it please

Best regards / Mikael