Puppy in California

michaelundinaeichhorn · 13-09-2010, 08:24

As HD is genetical but also depending on the upbringing of the dog I find this rather strange to give as a guarantee, what you do out of personal care is something different.
For me this makes a trading object out of your dog, like a car for example.

Law in Europe is simple on that point, if you pair two dogs that you know to give genetical problems to their offspring with high risk you have to stand for the following problems, especially if you didn´t tell the buyers in advance. If you did your best to avoid any problem you can exclude this risk because you are not responsible for problems you didn´t know of and therefor couldn´t prevent.

Ina

yukidomari · 13-09-2010, 08:30

Yes, I understand that HD is genetic as well as environmental, but as certain cases go, I can imagine that if it was severe or bilateral, it may sometimes be concluded to be more genetic rather than environmental. Actually, I don't know how much environment 'causes' HD, because I haven't read of any conclusive links between HD and things like exercise, diet, or otherwise. So if you know of any, I would really like to know. I have heard of very old dogs also, maybe around 11 or 12 years old, that still had OFFA scanned hips that were "Excellent", and he was an Aussie used for real herding. I believe our breeder believed our dog's luxating patellae were genetic because it was bilateral, and because it was diagnosed right around when genetic LPs usually are diagnosed.

Anyway, it is not so much a trade, as you don't give back the original dogs, at least, not in the contracts that I have read and agreed with. You can choose to keep your dog and when the time is right take the additional dog that will fulfill the original purpose (work, show).

But, I think many breeders also feel that some conditions are environmental as well. It's popular here for 'guarantees' to end right at 24 months old, right around when HD, if it will appear badly, to appear.

I understand legally, someone may not be liable, but it seems like the right thing to do... If a puppy buyer ends up with a disabled dog, I don't think I could just say to myself, 'that's very sad.. But just bad luck.'

michaelundinaeichhorn · 13-09-2010, 08:57

There have been done studies in Berlin by Dämmrich ed.al. on the influence of feeding and exercise on HD. It must have been in the ninetees and I think it was published in "Kleintiermedizin".
I mainly agree but there is a legal difference between guarantee and taking care.

13-09-2010, 08:30	#2
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Yes, I understand that HD is genetic as well as environmental, but as certain cases go, I can imagine that if it was severe or bilateral, it may sometimes be concluded to be more genetic rather than environmental. Actually, I don't know how much environment 'causes' HD, because I haven't read of any conclusive links between HD and things like exercise, diet, or otherwise. So if you know of any, I would really like to know. I have heard of very old dogs also, maybe around 11 or 12 years old, that still had OFFA scanned hips that were "Excellent", and he was an Aussie used for real herding. I believe our breeder believed our dog's luxating patellae were genetic because it was bilateral, and because it was diagnosed right around when genetic LPs usually are diagnosed. Anyway, it is not so much a trade, as you don't give back the original dogs, at least, not in the contracts that I have read and agreed with. You can choose to keep your dog and when the time is right take the additional dog that will fulfill the original purpose (work, show). But, I think many breeders also feel that some conditions are environmental as well. It's popular here for 'guarantees' to end right at 24 months old, right around when HD, if it will appear badly, to appear. I understand legally, someone may not be liable, but it seems like the right thing to do... If a puppy buyer ends up with a disabled dog, I don't think I could just say to myself, 'that's very sad.. But just bad luck.' Last edited by yukidomari; 13-09-2010 at 08:42.

13-09-2010, 08:24	#1
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	As HD is genetical but also depending on the upbringing of the dog I find this rather strange to give as a guarantee, what you do out of personal care is something different. For me this makes a trading object out of your dog, like a car for example. Law in Europe is simple on that point, if you pair two dogs that you know to give genetical problems to their offspring with high risk you have to stand for the following problems, especially if you didn´t tell the buyers in advance. If you did your best to avoid any problem you can exclude this risk because you are not responsible for problems you didn´t know of and therefor couldn´t prevent. Ina

13-09-2010, 08:57	#3
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	There have been done studies in Berlin by Dämmrich ed.al. on the influence of feeding and exercise on HD. It must have been in the ninetees and I think it was published in "Kleintiermedizin". I mainly agree but there is a legal difference between guarantee and taking care.