About wolfhybrids

[GalomyOak]

I worked with wolves for 2 years in college - mostly with pups, but also got to see the experienced handlers with the adults in an educational park. They are not dogs. I have had many experiences with "American" wolfdogs. They are more difficult than CSVs - not always aggressive, but some are, and as stated above, even if not aggressive, most high contents have high prey drive - not unlike many dog breeds, but in combination with the impossibility to train like a dog, it's where danger comes in for unfamiliar people, especially those who don't have good judgement (like small kids). So okay, they are their own entity, I feel neutral to this in some ways. A big problem for me living in the US is that many wolfdogs are bred illegally - frequently in very cramped confinement, so the authorities don't detect them. They are bred only for profit and as hobby/pets, since they have no kind of working purpose. There is no standard to aim for with breeding. I seriously doubt there are any high contents that have earned obedience or working titles. I currently have a Czech bred GSD staying with me...he is hard, dominant, drivey, and with very high prey drive - difficult to handle if you aren't experienced. He is much more similar to my CSV than the grey wolves were. But he is fine as a pet with the right family - he understands people, even with no food to work for. He can live indoors, and understands things such as voice inflection. Here are some experiences of people who spend a lot of time with all kinds of American wolfdogs - but a few of the many rescues here. Notice, they say "full/waiting list". Ordinary shelters/rescues are often obliged by law or policy to euthanize wolfdogs, and it's always the case if they bite someone. It's a sad situation here...

http://www.nevercrywolfrescue.com/media.asp
http://www.texasblessings.com/WOLF_DOG_RESCUE.html
http://www.wharwolves.org/adoptionreality.htm

[hanninadina]

In the US you have 78 Millio dogs. 4,5 Mill are in rescue/shelters. You have around 700.000 wolfdogs. But only around 20.000 are in rescue. If here is a mathematic, please give us the percentage. But over the thumb 6 % from dogs are in rescue, but only around 2,7 % wolfdogs are in shelter: the half number.

As I wrote, wolfdogs are not for everyone and of course they are no working breed. But you are wrong when you do think that it is not possible. Do you read wolfdogs magazine? Then you maybe know Ann Dresselhaus. She got 14 titles in akc companion exam and even Schutzhund with wolfdogs. Ann is a friend of mine. She bred Noomis relatives.

But please read here in google translated version from what I wrote about wolfdogs http://translate.google.com/translat...de&sl=de&tl=en

Have a look at the pictures. For example Maya, 8 years, F 1 90%.

And please look at the side from wolf and wolfdog rescue near LA in California http://www.wolfconnection.org/ from my friends Teo and Renee. Watch what they do with their animals.

And of course, it is not enough to have wolves to tell, that someone has knowledge, like Eichhorns wants to make believe. We have in germany 120 zoos and wildparks with wolves. And from these all around 100 have problems with their animals because they do have the wrong packs and the animals fight to each other - til death! Lack of knowledge. And even Tanja Askani lost a grey wolf after fighting. So if someone has a Ferrari in the garage, that does not mean that he is racing driver.

You have to have practical knowledge and of course theoretical.

By the way the same is valid in lobopark. I was there 3 times in 3 years. And everytime I was there, they do only have young wolves... And everybody knows that wolves in captivity get very old. I know 19, 17 years old wolves. So better not to ask to deep in the matter of these wolfpark. It is as always, Eichorns are sitting in a glace house and throwing with stones.

[GalomyOak]

I think maybe there are no statistics on the number of wolfdogs that are not given to rescues...as I said before, normal dog/cat shelters accept wolfdogs, but they do not adopt them to new homes. They are euthanized. It's the case over and over in my local shelter. Most owners don't relinquish their pets as wolfdogs, they call them "husky mixes" or "malamute mixes", since they know with 100% certainty what will happen if they tell the truth. But most of the time, the shelters make their own determination. I'm curious how they come to the statistics anyways?

In my time with wolves, none died or anything bad, nor in the past 9 years since I left. The trainers were licensed, and everything was very well maintained in accordance with federal regulations. They educate thousands of people daily about wolves in public demonstrations. They also participate in national initiatives for wolf preservation. The wolves lived better than many people.
http://www.buschgardens.com/Bgw/Expl...ls.aspx?id=426

It's cool about your friend, and I don't necessarily have a fight with American wolfdog owners. But, I try to see the whole reality, and we see a lot of it here - of course to everything there are exceptions - one only has to look at the polar bear video in the other thread to see that.

I am curious how your friend was able to get AKC titles, since it's forbidden to exhibit wolf mixes in any AKC event or test?
Here is the form for dogs which are not registered breeds (mixed breeds) to register for events:
https://www.akc.org/mixedbreeds/listing/index.cfm

P.S - what happens to dogs here is horrible to with regards to the statistics. Many (most?) Americans have no business to own dogs, let alone a wolfdog (including CSV!). Our culture is pathetic about the care of animals compared to many European cultures. Animals are a commodity here. Unfortunately, our kennel clubs make money from this, so they keep very loose regulations - for care, health, or temperament - the regulations are rarely involved, except for in very, very bad cases...

[hanninadina]

There is no statistic how many wolfdogs are in shelters. But there are not so many shelters and they are in contact with each other and I am in contact with some of them. Very easy, if you use internet and are able to talk to people, you get the information. The total number of wolfdogs is written in Dave Mech´s book from 2003, and I got the number from the scientist Prof. Dr. Ray Pierotti and from the biggest breeders. So I made a middle number. And as I wrote in facebook are in the meantime hundreds wof people having wolfdogs and rescue shelters and breeders. And I am in contact with all. It is a far bigger community like the csw. Of course having only about 5.000 csw world wide it is nothing to compare to 700.000 american wolfdogs.

And I am of course in very good contact to the scandinavian wolfdog owners. Most live in Finland.

Ann created her own breed the "Alaskan Noble Companion Dogs". It is very simple. She is trainer too and takes from other people the exam. She is very experienced. But that you can read on my website I put the link here in.

Buschgardens, I know, that are animals from Lorraine. The wolf/wolfdog world is very small. And because of my animals and I am one of a handfull people who imported an animal from the north america, write for the wolfdogs magazine, have a good website, have the contact to the most important wolf researchers like Dave, Bob, Ray and Greg it makes an all in all for me and people do know me. And it does not often happen that Monty Sloan visit private persons. But he did with me, we are friends.

And I am friend too with Mark Rowlands "The Philosopher and the Wolf". So I have experience not only with my own animals, but I get all important information first hand! And so I am wondering that a person like Fenris, who even does not have a csw means to know about the wolfdog world.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Of course having only about 5.000 csw world wide it is nothing to compare to 700.000 american wolfdogs.

"CsV that is alive today is about 7500 (2009-01-01)"

And as I know "American Wolfdog" is not a breed but a way of breeding, and it´s therefor very hard (or impossible) to say they are like this or that...

Very best regards / Mikael

PS, I like all Wolfdogs, but not all owners and breeders. DS

And whit that I do not mean you

[hanninadina]

I talked with Margo in may in germany about the overall number and we both thought about around 5.000. Of course it could be some more.

[fenris]

I am not against wolfdogs or wolfhybrids, but am alarmed to "blow the whistle" when some gives the impression that highpercentage or even pure wolves are easier to to keep than a regular CWD. Wolves and high %-age wolfdogs can be dangerous in the hand of the lay-man and the ignorant and every experienced wolf behaviorist or wolf scientist or wolfdog breeder will agree. I hope I misunderstand the self-acclaimed specialist, but to prevent other without experience who has the desire for a highpercentage wolfdog or a desire to mix more wolfblood into the CWD I feel an obligation to react to her claims.

Hanninadias close friend who makes special private visit to her, the photographer Monty Sloans has published this about the wolfdog:
"Wolves and high-content wolf-hybrids should never be regarded as pets"
See his whole article here:http://www.wolfpark.org/Images/Educa...Guidelines.pdf
W However , of the animals that I`ve seen or heard of that are good with children, most are low in content or young". See this whole article here: http://www.wolfpark.org/Images/Educa...dsChildren.pdf
I would also recommend Erik Klingenhammer , the mentor wolf behaviorist from WolfPark, article on wolfhybrids: http://www.wolfpark.org/Images/Educa...ionHybrids.pdf

Ann Dresselhouse dogs, the Noble Alaskan Companion Dogs, are accordinig to herself a mix between at least 6 dog breeds. Sighthounds, collies, shepherds, white siberian huskies &.c. This amalgam of dogbreeds is very specially developed for their trainablility although wolflike in appearance. Maybe this explains Hanninadians experience with her dogs.

[cindy23323]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

There is no statistic how many wolfdogs are in shelters. But there are not so many shelters and they are in contact with each other and I am in contact with some of them. Very easy, if you use internet and are able to talk to people, you get the information. The total number of wolfdogs is written in Dave Mech´s book from 2003, and I got the number from the scientist Prof. Dr. Ray Pierotti and from the biggest breeders. So I made a middle number. And as I wrote in facebook are in the meantime hundreds wof people having wolfdogs and rescue shelters and breeders. And I am in contact with all. It is a far bigger community like the csw. Of course having only about 5.000 csw world wide it is nothing to compare to 700.000 american wolfdogs.

And I am of course in very good contact to the scandinavian wolfdog owners. Most live in Finland.

Ann created her own breed the "Alaskan Noble Companion Dogs". It is very simple. She is trainer too and takes from other people the exam. She is very experienced. But that you can read on my website I put the link here in.

Buschgardens, I know, that are animals from Lorraine. The wolf/wolfdog world is very small. And because of my animals and I am one of a handfull people who imported an animal from the north america, write for the wolfdogs magazine, have a good website, have the contact to the most important wolf researchers like Dave, Bob, Ray and Greg it makes an all in all for me and people do know me. And it does not often happen that Monty Sloan visit private persons. But he did with me, we are friends.

And I am friend too with Mark Rowlands "The Philosopher and the Wolf". So I have experience not only with my own animals, but I get all important information first hand! And so I am wondering that a person like Fenris, who even does not have a csw means to know about the wolfdog world.

I know animals at Busch Gardens are from Deborah Warrick and Mace Loftus has two there also. But i was unaware of Lorraine having any there.

[hanninadina]

For those of you who are in facebook can now see two short video clips from Wolfscience Center which I took last week during my three day stay there. Please look under my profile or wolfdogs magazine.

Christian Berge