Russian Army Wolfdog Projekt

[Mikael]

Hello a video on Russian army wolfdogs under training...
Can anybody that knows Russian tell us all more about this ???

When did the projekt start and so on... ????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YB_v0dCVpU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXoYb7tnugQ&fmt=18

Are they making there own CsV ???

Very best regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

I realy like the jumping Wolfdog in video nr 1
But I´m happy my CsV do not do it

Best regards / M

[Rona]

Napisał Mikael

But I´m happy my CsV do not do it

Don't write it loudly....

[draggar]

http://perm.canislupus.ru/

Google Chrome does an OK job translating.

[Mikael]

Aaaa thank Ed

So they started before 1999 and are now at generation F3, if I understand it all right...

Looks like they want there own Vlcak´s, but are to proved to buy from CZ or SL

But as it looks to me, are own amateur trained CsV are both better at protection and search than what we can see these military dogs do, after military training...
And CsV are lighter and maybe also faster...

Best regards / Mikael

[Silvester]

Hey Mikael, how are you ?

Originally posted by Mikael:
"But as it looks to me, are own amateur trained CsV are both better at protection and search than what we can see these military dogs do, after military training...
And CsV are lighter and maybe also faster..."

I think it´s not surprising what you are telling - just because of longer breeding and may be more strict selection what was made in the first time with CsV.
( You said before that russian "Vlcak" have now about F3 generation.)

And you don´t know how F3 generation of CsV did behave - like Rep may be. You can only compare TODAYS CsV with these russian animals.

It´s easy do understand that the longer and the more strict the selection is, the better results for ability to training you will get.

Have a nice sunday !

Greetings, Uli alias Silvester

[Silvester]

Ok, I just had a look in my little "archiv" in my pc - and i found this video

( only in German language , sorry)

http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-33905.html

Hope it´s interesting for people here on English forum too.

[Morian]

ehh... some info from russia
i know some people working there in perm with these hybrids. and i can say for sure that all you see is just pr and nothing more. they only "suck" money from government. these animals don't work, only 2 or 3 (you can see on their official site all, but not working exams, yes, only stories about their perfect work). others have problems with agression and shyness. we only meet some cute photos and dithyrambs in the internet. nothing more. i personally tried to invite them to some working competition after they put doses of shit on csv on their forums. nothing. and it happens all the time, the only answer is "this is very serous military project, we are restricted to travel". one more thing. for the simple reason that they do not work, but eat money from the state, they report that their experiment is aimed at fixation of gene... of loyalty to human (yes, they found this gene, haha). so i think further comments are not required
may be you don't know, we have many wolves here, very many people which want to make money from nothing and even more stupids ready to spend they money for such thngs. that's why we have not only "volkosobs" in perm, but also wolends (laika x wolf) which cost more than csv, russian wolfhounds (canadian x malamute)... by the way, these wolfdounds already killed a child in petersburg...

[Morian]

ah, how i could forget it. on of their points is - volkosobs live until 30 years. yes, they say it seriously. let's wait, 25 years later we'll see who was right

[Mikael]

Thanks Silvester and Morian

Morian... What is the name of the (breed) in the video and what are they mixes of ???

Best regards / Mikael

[Morian]

all 3 videos are about volkosobs from perm, this crazy military experiment... they all are gsd/wolf mixes of different generations. you can find their so called pedigrees on their site (link was given here earlier). i don't know how many gsds they used, but it was only 1 she-wolf najda. so f2 etc have super strong inbreeding.
example (taken from their site) is in attachment

[Mikael]

Napisał Morian

all 3 videos are about volkosobs from perm, this crazy military experiment... they all are gsd/wolf mixes of different generations. you can find their so called pedigrees on their site (link was given here earlier). i don't know how many gsds they used, but it was only 1 she-wolf najda. so f2 etc have super strong inbreeding.
example (taken from their site) is in attachment

Thanks again

Russian BIG wolves was used, right ???

But this are just military wolfdogs, not for private owners Or am I wrong ???

Are they planing more lines and to try to get them to be working dogs in the future ??? Or will there just be a few at this military base ???

Very best regards / Mikael

PS, BTW, I´m only interested in info, not a dog ...DS

[Morian]

russian normal wolves, i think
also i think they can sell them to private owners too... unfortunately. about lines etc. - yes, they have plans, but nothing more. but i can't share the info i have from people which worked with them, it would be just a low blow

[*Satu]

In 2003, I met one man who took part in that test and he told the experiment was over.
Big problems whit character and healty.

[Morian]

big problems and... big money they still continue their "work" and still try to advertise themselves in russia nobody saw no outstanding result (i mean working abilities), that's why they started to tell new legends about 30 yars long life, gene of loyalty and other fish stories from the same kind.

[Mikael]

I did find this one to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkaqO...eature=related

What do they say Morian ... Just kidding

Best regards / Mikael

[Morian]

ahhaha advertising of non-fci mixes on wd! must i ban you? (kidding too)

the only interesting thing said is about motivation of dogs and wolfdogs, she told that it differs very much, how dogs make tricks for food etc. 90% is about how cool they are. by the way, it was iterview with olga druzhinina, one of the main persons in this experiment. she started to tell about 30 years i spoke with her many times on some forums and even by skype. every time after my question "why do you want to create new breed if it already exists?" she used to start long and boring discussions about csv - not able to work, shy etc. but every time we had to finish the discussion with another question - have you ever seen one? i don't want to compare csv and volkosob (as minimum because i didn't have it), but imagine - how many dogs are on their site? for so long time (and so much money and attention) it's not too optimistic number. how many of them passed even most easy exams? 2 or 3 maybe. how strong inbreeding is - did you see information about any health test on their site? i didn't. only one paper where they compared biochemical indices of dogs and hybrids (and found out that their dogs are not healthy). it's all looks like a bad joke, nothing more. so much ado about nothing.

[tupacs2legs]

ahh! thankyou..only saturday my friend and i (tassle) were watching a you tube clip about this but it was in russian! grrr!

i couldnt understand why they were trying to breed what already exists

does anyone know of the experiment of crossing siberian huskys and jackals for use as 'sniffer dogs'? is this project still ongoing? (seemed an odd idea to me)

[Priska182]

Thank you Mikael and Morian, it's really an interesting thread. It's amazing how wolf hybridation can sugest that much interest... Personally I'n really glad with my pure breed dog

[draggar]

Napisał Morian

90% is about how cool they are.

This is probably why they're doing it. Coolness = more attention = more money.