Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[jefta]

Agouti is determinated by different locus "Aw"

csv are AwAwBB, this dogs are AwAwbb

[elf]

The agouti gene would control where the pigments are disposited, the dilution one would transform black to blue (not black to red/liver) ; so here what we see is different, it's the red/liver from bb.

For Saarloos pictures, here are the brown Saarloos I have in the DB SWD Forest-Brown, click on the dog name, then on the next page on "Pictures of this dog", you will see picture of the dog if any found (bad request msg otherwise).

[saschia]

Yes elf, but is it the same gene? Is it the same mutation? If yes, why is it not offered for huskies/malamutes?

[Dayen]

Saschia,
I found czech website about testing, for B locus: http://www.genomia.cz/cz/test/locus-b-dog/

[jefta]

I wrote e-mail to Vetgen about testing husky malamut and canis lupus lupus.

[elf]

Originally Posted by saschia

Yes elf, but is it the same gene? Is it the same mutation? If yes, why is it not offered for huskies/malamutes?

Hmm, to my knowledge it's the same TYRP1, you know special breed cases always exist but I guess we can safely consider this valid for our breed.

[Jet]

Hi every One!

My Nickname is Jet, and I m Glad to meet you. After all, exchange every information about our lovely breed is my hobby, since a few month.

I m the owner of Fitz Chevalerie des Plaines de l'Est, a young CSV (10 month : Robin Crying Wolf x Asta Sokoli Oko) who have as Grand Father Galiba Crying Wolf. He is born at Indianous Kernel ('Les Plaines de l'Est' See th post above).

She is a great breeder, and she gave me a wonderfull Puppy. In France, You Know, we have a lot of CSV which are coming from east lines. Crying Wolf is one of the famoust, not the only, yes! uhh?

Now it is sure in France, and Wolfdog Website Admin is agreed with that, ADN proof is showing us that Sibir Crying Wolf x Thalia Crying Wolf is giving us wonderfull puppies, but with a very very Saarlos look like.

The purpose is now to understand why... Nothing matter with our Wolfdog, they are beautifull, we love them. It is just to understand.

It seems that the only way is to analyse Galiba's ADN. I don't know if this wonderfull dog is still alive, Where he live... But Rambo, Rubin, Robin, Sibir, Volos, ... have their puppies here in France, and some of them have already got a lot of puppies too (and so on...).

Do you understand? We need your help to know the truth...

Sorry about my English, I m from Bordeaux, better speaking in french about wine than CSV in englih!

And never forget, these dogs are our best friends, we love them!

[Jet]

Here is, in french, the begining :

http://www.chiens-de-france.com/site...RUBRIQUE=31468

[Jet]

And Warning, these informations are given by a french Breeder (MLS), who is playing the true way. Never forget that it is the most difficult way for a breeder. She'is the only in France to show reality. Thank's for her.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by elf

Hmm, to my knowledge it's the same TYRP1, you know special breed cases always exist but I guess we can safely consider this valid for our breed.

I would consider it valid for our breed because i've seen such mutation occur in very inbreeded pure european wolves here, but the inbreeding was so high that together with the color mutation we got other weird mutations as well, better saying, deformations, like a wolf with the one paw positioned at the side of the metatarses instead of the right place.
The mate was not such high inbreeding and the problem of these dogs are not only the color, but the tipicity, then is better we forget about a nice thing as an simple color mutation and get real that there happened an mixage which we had no idea about and maybe nor even the breeder.

Originally Posted by Jet

it seems that the only way is to analyse Galiba's ADN.

Looking right now, I dont think it came by Galiba, but by Mona.
Im not telling here that Mona is not pure, but that maybe all the pups of one litter does not belong to the same father, in this case im not thinking about the possibilitie of cheating but remembering that the same litter can have 2 or more fathers depending on the ovulation of the female and when the male covered, also that we all know that wolfdogs are scape artists, much more when you have crazy males and a female in heat.

[indiananous]

http://www.chiens-de-france.com/site...RUBRIQUE=31468


After seeing the pictures of these puppies, and having used the ascendants of these dogs I am ready to do the necessary tests on my marriage in order to know if Saarloos were used to make these lines.
And as you stop taking us for idiots.

Nadia CLEMENT
Elevage des plaines de l'Est

[Gypsy Wolf]

There are also two other genetic "issues" to consider... the first is spontaneous mutation - for additional information on this Google "Panda SHepherds" - pure West German highline GSDs that produced white-patched pups - one parent had a spontaneous mutation for this and it is currently being studied by University of California. ANother is "Chimerism" - Google "Chimera" where unexpected DNA plays a role - brindle colored horses, for instance, and it has been seen in humans, where a woman gave birth to her SISTER'S offspring (the baby she concieved and gave birth to was NOT genetically related to her but to a "sister" whose genes she carries as the "sister" was absorbed by her in the fetal stage).
Just because wild wolves, GSDs, etc. do not display mutations of color does not mean they do not exist in the gene pool.
Remember all dogs descend from the wolf, so there is the potential for anything in the genetics. Pushed-in faces are not seen in the wolf or GSD but is seen in wolf descendents like the Bully breeds, showing that wolf genetics are indeed a maleable "material" and likely to have spontaneous mutations from time to time...

[wolfin]

a little streng when this "mutation" have not only mutation in collor and pigment but and in anatomy

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by wolfin

a little streng when this "mutation" have not only mutation in collor and pigment but and in anatomy

Yes that is extreamly strange And only the DNA will / can tell us way, where and when

Very best regards / Mikael

[Priska182]

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

There are also two other genetic "issues" to consider... the first is spontaneous mutation - for additional information on this Google "Panda SHepherds" - pure West German highline GSDs that produced white-patched pups - one parent had a spontaneous mutation for this and it is currently being studied by University of California. ANother is "Chimerism" - Google "Chimera" where unexpected DNA plays a role - brindle colored horses, for instance, and it has been seen in humans, where a woman gave birth to her SISTER'S offspring (the baby she concieved and gave birth to was NOT genetically related to her but to a "sister" whose genes she carries as the "sister" was absorbed by her in the fetal stage).

Thanks! the Panda Shepherds case is really interesting!...