Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[martiou07]

Originally Posted by Jet

1) This Puppy is red, (and beautifull).
2) DNA proof show us that he is coming by Sibir x Thalia
3) Sibir and Thalia are not MIX and pure CSW, from a great CSW breeder

==> So we have now a new colour line... You just have to change the CSW Standard ...

Why looking for complicated issues?

good joke Jet

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

How did the red color come to be in the Saarloos? Aren't they also crosses of GSD and wolf?

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

No. In the fact they are mixes of different breeds and accoridng to different sources also nordic breeds (husky or malamute) are involed. They are "Wolfdogs" only on the paper.

As far as my understanding Saarloos also have as Margo says Nordic breeds in foundation. I think the earliest 'original' project was GSD x wolves but later additional breedings involved wolves outside of Europe as well as Nordic mixes. If so, I could easily see how a red Saarloos would be of similar coloration to red huskies.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

As far as my understanding Saarloos also have as Margo says Nordic breeds in foundation. I think the earliest 'original' project was GSD x wolves but later additional breedings involved wolves outside of Europe as well as Nordic mixes. If so, I could easily see how a red Saarloos would be of similar coloration to red huskies.

so saarloos were similar to Tamaskans?

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

so saarloos were similar to Tamaskans?

No... because Saarloos are still admittedly wolfdogs....

[Jennin Lauma]

tupacs2legs: so saarloos were similar to Tamaskans?

Originally Posted by yukidomari

No... because Saarloos are still admittedly wolfdogs....

[Priska182]

Hi,

Personally I prefer the scientific point of view on this matter than the “Mixes possibility”...
I have some difficulties to understand why some big breeders, supposedly like Crying Wolf, “would do” mixes between Saarloos and CsV... and after that be oblige to cheat on their dogs pedigree...
I can understand (but don’t agree) why some “neo breeder” will be tempted to try this kind of thing... But one more time, why cheating after that?...
Best regards,
And my sympathy to you Lorry

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Priska182

Personally I prefer the scientific point of view on this matter than the “Mixes possibility”...

So do I and I suppose, everybody here! Confirmation of this hypothesis would save a lot of trouble, costs, worries, efforts and maybe even some dogs' lives We should keep our fringers crossed when the DNA tests will be carried out.

Originally Posted by Priska182

I have some difficulties to understand why some big breeders, supposedly like Crying Wolf, “would do” mixes between Saarloos and CsV... and after that be oblige to cheat on their dogs pedigree...
I can understand (but don’t agree) why some “neo breeder” will be tempted to try this kind of thing... But one more time, why cheating after that?...

That's exactly why some people suppose it might have been just an "accident". The question is, if the breeder didn't know about it (saarlos/CSV pups could be almost identical with CSV pups), or knew and deliberately cheated on pedigrees. I prefer to belive in the first hypothesis. The wilingness to cooperate in order to research and explain the problem would be the best test for the affected breeders/owners honesty and goodwill and, in the long run, would be in their best interest

[Jennin Lauma]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

As far as my understanding Saarloos also have as Margo says Nordic breeds in foundation. I think the earliest 'original' project was GSD x wolves but later additional breedings involved wolves outside of Europe as well as Nordic mixes. If so, I could easily see how a red Saarloos would be of similar coloration to red huskies.

Some Saarloos have white masks like Nordic sled dog breeds. This is hard to believe to have come from GSD, and even harder to believe to originate from wolf...
So there are some coat color patterns in Saarloos, that question the officially stated origin of the breed (=GSD & European Wolf)

BUT, the brown (bb) coat color does exist in GSD (see my previous post), so it is possible that this color came into Saarloos from GSD's.

I have tried to find out more information about the brown color in Saarloos;
-when and where did it first occur?
-were any of the early stud dogs (GSD's) known carriers of the trait (brown themselves, or had brown in their lineage)?
--> I assume that it could be possible to trace back the early stud GSD lines to see if there were known brown individuals or not.
And if the brown gene (bb) where there from the beginning, it would most likely have been seen allready in the early Saarloos. If it showed up later in the game, then I think it is a sign of more recent heritage.

I'm sorry if this starts to go a little off topic...
I've once started a topic about this on the Saarloos section. I didn't get much answers there...
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16187